Live Australian Export Cattle

[RobH]

You cant do that, its not halal and will screw with the Packer money and investment from our own Government.
Halal is all about beating the living shit out of an animal, breaking most of its bones UNTIL but as long as long as he/she weeps towards Mecca, its OK? If every country refused to supply them........ feck em they can go hungry! Murderers, filthy fecking non regulatary country.

I don't think it's Halal, just that Indonesians are primitive medieval retards, as posted elsewhere. In fact there is really no such thing as an Indonesian as such, they are just a mosaic of cobbled together tribes and ethnic groups who were abandoned by the Dutch Empire and who appear to be racing each other to the bottom. Correct Halal butchering dictates that the animal should be killed swiftly without it ever seeing the knife. I regularly buy meat from the Halal butcher in Fortitude Valley (good prices as well) for that reason.

I have largely been ignorant of Islamic tradition and law, but the discussion here and at work today has prompted me to look up what their stand is on the slaughter of an animal for consumption.

Now if Wikipedia contains the true information, then their "... prescribed method of ritual slaughter of all animals excluding camels, locusts, fish and most sea-life..." is called Dhabīḥah (ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhabihah), and on the surface appears to be quite humane (however some may debate the levels of trauma involved with exsanguination). Some extracts from the referenced article are:

"Several other conditions are also stated: the knife's blade should be extremely sharp yet not be sharpened in front of the animal, the animal must not be slaughtered in front of other animals, and the animal's eyes and ears must be checked to ensure its health and suitability for slaughter. If it is deemed to be healthy, it is given water to drink (to quench its thirst)."

and

"According to Islamic tradition, the animal is brought to the place of slaughter and laid down gently so as to not injure it. The blade must be kept hidden until the very last moment while the jugular of the animal is felt. The conventional method used to slaughter the animal involves cutting the large arteries in the neck along with the esophagus and vertebrate trachea with one swipe of an non-serrated blade. Care must be taken that the nervous system is not damaged, as this may cause the animal to die before exsanguination has taken place. While blood is draining, the animal is not handled until it has died."

Either way, what we saw on Four Corners is certainly not in line with this.

 

[Malted]

ABC I-View has it at the moment.

:icon_offtopic: How awesome is ABC I-View!

I did not know that ABC i-View existed. Yes it is a good service. I have now watched the episode.

 

[Malted]

Either way, what we saw on Four Corners is certainly not in line with this.

If these things are true then what was filmed was certainly not in accordance with this methodology.

I was going to say that I guess it for the most part it comes down to cultural values and traditions associated with religion but then I thought about it some more. Many of the slaughtermen filmed showed a clear lack of respect for the animal - this has nothing to do with religion but may relate to culture. Is dog fighting, cock fighting etc still conducted in Indonesia? I suspect so and I also suspect that if one were to generalise that the region as a whole has a culture independent of religious values that does not respect animals.

I understand that the restraint boxes were disturbing to most people here and one could point the finger at Aust Gov't and MLA and say, how could you!? One must bear in mind that these ARE an improvement over the traditional method of the posts in the middle of the floor. One may also say that they are not enough of an improvement.

To the flipside. The hardest thing of all to change is a culture. Change can not occur too quickly if it is to last.

 

[DUANNE]

what has got to me most is the knee jerk reaction that we should stop all live exports there now. if we pull out straight away then not only do a lot of farmers lose theyre bussineses overnight, but we as a humane country cease to have any say on how they treat animals that they slaughter. what is needed is a crackdown on the treatment of aussie cattle in indonesia and hopefully that trickles down to how they slaughter animals originating in indonesia or other countries they may import from. if we stop exporting cattle there completely we have no say in how they slaughter animals in theyre own country.lose lose situation imo.

 

[Daniel.lear]

As mentioned, perhaps the way forward is not to ban exports but rather to tackle them at their own game.

Indonesia is all but Muslim, and they claim to be killing these cattle using methods that are Halal. Why then doesnt the local Imam (or whoever their local high ranking religious dude is) pop round to tear them new ones and tell that they have poisoned their Muslim brothers and that they are bad Muslims.

Surely that should help change practice if not attitudes?

Thoughts?

Leary

 

[RobH]

As mentioned, perhaps the way forward is not to ban exports but rather to tackle them at their own game.

Indonesia is all but Muslim, and they claim to be killing these cattle using methods that are Halal. Why then doesn't the local Imam (or whoever their local high ranking religious dude is) pop round to tear them new ones and tell that they have poisoned their Muslim brothers and that they are bad Muslims.

Surely that should help change practice if not attitudes?

Thoughts?

Leary

Actually on a similar vein I am reasoning that there appears to be no grounds now to reject the use of stunning.

 

[spog]

ahhh,that reminded me to clean the barby this weekend........cheers.......spog

 

[seemax]

Thoughts?

Leary

Veganism ... kill two birds with one stone (animal cruelty and carbon emissions).

Eat whatever you like and feel no guilt.

 

[schooey]

Hahaha... the cost of having the brain power to be top of the food chain and daylight to second; the feelings of compassion, guilt and remorse.

 

[Pollux]

I just quickly scanned through the episode on i-view. Watched the important bits (i.e. the actual footage from the slaughters).

As someone who grew up on a cattle farm, participated in the home killing and butchering of cows for us to eat and horses for the dogs I have never seen practices like this. These sort of places need to be either closed down or brought up to speed on how to efficiently kill animals for human consumption. Meat that is stressed during slaughter tends to not taste the same, and my biggest concern was seeing one animal being skinned on the same floor that other animals had walked on. Cross-contamination much???

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Thank god we do things different here.

I have been in some abbatiors and the care the cattle are given is almost better than some parent I have seen. The cattle are housed under roofs/shade, hoses in summer to keep them killed, kept very calm ( in fact dogs are banned from the yard and must be kept in the truck ) , they walk up a closed shute with a gate some that the other cattle cant see what is going on. Then they a re stunned/killed by a bolt gun, then tipped into the slaughter floor and processed.

If they get a beast that startes to play up in the shut, they wont kill it as the adrenalin makes the meat tough

I would hate to think what that meat on the footage was like

 

[bum]

hoses in summer to keep them killed

Do they come back to life if they dry out?!?!

 

[Pennywise]

:lol: Funny shit

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Dooh

was supposed to say keep them cool


NOTE TO SELF..... make sure you read your post before submitting it dickhead

 

[haysie]

Per rdejvun post, a little bit of credit to the government...for how long?
at least the industry is nowing copping some heavy flak and we may see changes sooner than later.
Yes 2 Packer selling out, for a handy 400 million thereabouts after setting up the indonesian feedlots which are Packer like, holiday in heaven! What happens after the feedlot is a disgrace, but that would never have mattered to that Kerry, James and co.

 

[Katherine]

Same for the sheep.....

Pigs are treated badly here in Australia.....

 

[Malted]

Same for the sheep.....

Pigs are treated badly here in Australia.....

Rdrr (laughs at self) trying to grind that (pig) axe again I see...
(intended as friendly shit stir)

 

[Malted]

Per rdejvun post, a little bit of credit to the government...for how long?
at least the industry is nowing copping some heavy flak and we may see changes sooner than later.
Yes 2 Packer selling out, for a handy 400 million thereabouts after setting up the indonesian feedlots which are Packer like, holiday in heaven! What happens after the feedlot is a disgrace, but that would never have mattered to that Kerry, James and co.

You seem to have some Packer issues...

On a seperte note - Riddle me this: how come the Packer feedlots were built to a better standard in Indonesia than those standards required in Australia?

 

[seemax]

Breeding animals for the purpose of killing them... how is that NOT bad in any way?

No there is guarantee the meat you eat is not from an animal which has suffered in some manner during its journey from birth to death.

If you can't tolerate the suffering in Indonesia how do you justify eating local meat?

 

[bum]

If you can't tolerate the suffering in Indonesia how do you justify eating local meat?

Because they're different situations?