Least careful you've been sanitising without an infection

[Mattress]

I don't take risks when it comes to sanitising for brewing. For me it is about eliminating variables. I don't spend time brewing and money of the best ingredients to then tip it down the drain cause I didn't sanitise my gear properly.

I've been brewing in the same fermenters for about 5 years and am still yet to get an infected brew (although, one of those fermenters did recently go to the big brewhouse in the sky).

I say why risk it. Sanitising your gear isn't difficult.

JD

This.
Especially when products like Starsan are so easy to us.

I keep a 20 litre bucket filled with diluted Starsan in the brewery. Gets changed when the level gets a bit low.

Everything post boil that comes into contact with my beer either bets dipped in the bucket for a minute or so, or a bit of the solution gets tipped into the container and swirled around.

Never had an infection.

 

[acarey]

I high pressure hose clean my FV then starsan spray. end of.

kegs, same deal.

Bottles get rinsed after use then sprayed with starsan shortly before filling.

Never had an infection.

I started off way more diligent but am getting slacker and slacker. You could probably put it on a chart with a downward trend except line will skyrocket when I finally get an infection.

 

[mb-squared]

I say why risk it. Sanitising your gear isn't difficult.

my sentiments exactly. too much work to dump it down the drain because you couldn't be bothered to squirt some starsan on it

 

[MaltyHops]

I didn't clean my taps, then I noticed some discolouration, discovered what a PITA they are to clean, so replaced them with the original bungs and use a racking cane.

Actually, they're really easy to disassemble and clean - from a post of mine:

Here is a thread about disassembling fermenter taps (the most common type) Cleaning Fermenter Taps - I do something similar but use a spare racking cane that fits inside the tap and slam the exposed end of the racking cane onto a tea towel while holding on to the tap.

Once disassembled, the tap parts can be scrubbed and soaked in starsan or something, then easily put back together.

 

[squirrell]

i think the general point being proposed by thisispants, which I tend to agree with is to consider whether there is overkill and does the cost expended in cleaning convert to proportionate benefits.

eg if the sloppy cleaner spends 5 minutes cleaning and gets one infected brew every hundred, and the fastidious cleaner spends 2 hours and gets none, who is better off?? Personally I'd be prepared to take the one in a hundred bad brew to save the additional 200 man hours. Someone brought up Y2K - having worked on a few of those projects I can assure you there was a huge amount of unecessary wastage and overkill. Its a bit like saying you cant compromise on safety and therefore wear a fire suit and helmet when driving a car. EVERYTHING has reasonable limits based on a cost benefit analysis.

 

[Dunkelbrau]

Cleaning is bloody annoying so I'm just waiting for someone on this thread to say, 'yeah, just bung it in there and don't worry about cleaning up the previous brew, it'll be fine', and that'll be my permission.

After you rinse out with whatever - Starsan, sodium percarbonate, or something else - you've got to dry it out. Stuff will always get in in that time between drying out and adding the wort. So though you can minimise risks you can never effectively eliminate them. Trying to eliminate bacteria is like fighting with an invisible world champion wrestler.

Anyway, most important thing for a healthy brew, I'd say, is a good wort and healthy yeast. Once the yeast really gets going it provides a very effective safety blanket of its own (protective layer of gases).

Starsan and other "no rinse sanitisers" are exactly that.. No rinse. No need to dry, just rack straight onto the foam (ensuring the main bulk of liquid Is out).

As for best things for the brew, sanitisation, yeast health and quality ingredients/processes (including temp control etc) are on the top of the list.

You never know how long the lag time will be, and if the bugs are in there they can survive with yeast (acetobacter, lactobacillus, Brett etc). Wyeast sells blended strains intentionally.. Why wouldn't they have an effect on taste if fermenting with the yeast strain?

Maybe some people have had slight infections in ALL their brews? You never know until someone who knows what it is tastes it and tells you!

Sanitisation is extremely important, especially for a 5-6 hour brew day to be wasted on top of having to buy a carton because I fucked a batch. I'd rather put a few mL of starsan in my regime

 

[Topher]

Back when I was doing kits I dropped the stirring spoon into the full fermenter just before pitching.

It sank, so I rolled up the sleeves and dove in up to my armpits. No problems with infection.....but I'm a bit more careful now!

 

[Dunkelbrau]

i think the general point being proposed by thisispants, which I tend to agree with is to consider whether there is overkill and does the cost expended in cleaning convert to proportionate benefits.

eg if the sloppy cleaner spends 5 minutes cleaning and gets one infected brew every hundred, and the fastidious cleaner spends 2 hours and gets none, who is better off?? Personally I'd be prepared to take the one in a hundred bad brew to save the additional 200 man hours. Someone brought up Y2K - having worked on a few of those projects I can assure you there was a huge amount of unecessary wastage and overkill. Its a bit like saying you cant compromise on safety and therefore wear a fire suit and helmet when driving a car. EVERYTHING has reasonable limits based on a cost benefit analysis.

Cleaning the gunk out from the krausen will be the bulk of everyone's cleaning session.

It takes literally 1 minute contact time for starsan to be effective. This makes it 200 minutes.. Which I'll get to below!

Once you get foreign bacteria in an FV, you have to sanitise it correctly to eliminate the bacteria from impacting every brew from then on.

I clean with sodium percarbonate and got water initially post ferment and store my FV to dry, during my brew day (usually nearin end of boil) I'll rinse and starsan my FV and run it through the chiller etc to sanitise everything in the chain post boil.

No extra time taken as I'm still boiling!

 

[JDW81]

i think the general point being proposed by thisispants, which I tend to agree with is to consider whether there is overkill and does the cost expended in cleaning convert to proportionate benefits.

eg if the sloppy cleaner spends 5 minutes cleaning and gets one infected brew every hundred, and the fastidious cleaner spends 2 hours and gets none, who is better off?? Personally I'd be prepared to take the one in a hundred bad brew to save the additional 200 man hours.

I don't think anyone is proposing spending 2 hours sanitising your gear each brew. If you clean you gear well at the end of each brew (which only takes 5-10 minutes), then you don't need to spend a long time sanitising. A quick spray with starsan is all that is necessary.

If people are prepared to take risks and don't get infections then more power to them. I for one, and many others I know, am/are willing to put the small amount of time in required to ensure there is the smallest risk of infection possible.

Sanitising properly should be a quick and easy process, and the time taken to do it should be looked at as time well spent, not a a trivial chore that gets in the way of drinking time.

Just my view and by no means speaking for others.

JD

 

[QldKev]

Cleaning is bloody annoying so I'm just waiting for someone on this thread to say, 'yeah, just bung it in there and don't worry about cleaning up the previous brew, it'll be fine', and that'll be my permission.

After you rinse out with whatever - Starsan, sodium percarbonate, or something else - you've got to dry it out. Stuff will always get in in that time between drying out and adding the wort. So though you can minimise risks you can never effectively eliminate them. Trying to eliminate bacteria is like fighting with an invisible world champion wrestler.

Anyway, most important thing for a healthy brew, I'd say, is a good wort and healthy yeast. Once the yeast really gets going it provides a very effective safety blanket of its own (protective layer of gases).

I assume you don't know, Starsan, as with some other sanitisers, are no-rinse.


Sanitizing is about starting with a clean environment, and maintaining it. I've had a lot of brews from proud brewers and thought they were infected. Years back there was a rule I read on here often.
4 Step of sanatising
1. Clean
2. Clean
3. Clean
4. Sanatise
You cannot sanatise a dirty environment.


I've used a fermenter for 6 months straight without re-sanitizing it, and do it for many brews often I brew on prior yeast cakes, so a good healthy batch of yeast to wake up immediately. But as soon as the keg is full from the fermenter, I dump excess yeast and pour in a fresh cube. If the prior beer is not infected from the fermenter, then the fermenter is safe.

Same as my kegs. When they blow, I leave them in the fridge full of CO2. Next time I need to keg beer I have a keg full of CO2 that a quick rinse and refill can be done.

BUT, I would never think of grabbing a dry fermenter and just filling it. I always soak them in napisan and then a good hit of starsan before putting them back into use. Same as my kegs if they have been un-used for a while.

Napisan is a brewers friend. Soak fermenters, I keep my cubes full of it. It keeps them clean and sanatised. Dump it, a quick rinse and then spray with starsan and you are back in business.

Also depending on where you live makes a difference. If you live in the middle of fruit trees life has just got tough.

 

[431neb]

Here's a link to an old thread that I have (inadvertently) woken up . It may be of some interest to the original poster.


http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/71241-best-way-to-clean-and-sanitise-bottles/

 

[Beer Ninja]

How does one embed a video ? I discovered a very easy way to break apart the plastic fermenter taps for cleaning but it would be easier to video it and post the vid.

If it's a YouTube just copy the URL in your message and submit your post. The video will embed after the post is submitted.


DO NOT hit the return button when you paste the link or you'll end up with a blue link rather than an embedded video.

 

[manticle]

After you rinse out with whatever - Starsan, sodium percarbonate, or something else - you've got to dry it out.

Actually starsan you don't. Spray/soak, empty excess and between 30 seconds and 3 minutes later, you're good to go.

 

[manticle]

i think the general point being proposed by thisispants, which I tend to agree with is to consider whether there is overkill and does the cost expended in cleaning convert to proportionate benefits.

eg if the sloppy cleaner spends 5 minutes cleaning and gets one infected brew every hundred, and the fastidious cleaner spends 2 hours and gets none, who is better off?? Personally I'd be prepared to take the one in a hundred bad brew to save the additional 200 man hours. Someone brought up Y2K - having worked on a few of those projects I can assure you there was a huge amount of unecessary wastage and overkill. Its a bit like saying you cant compromise on safety and therefore wear a fire suit and helmet when driving a car. EVERYTHING has reasonable limits based on a cost benefit analysis.

As per my first post - your brew, your risk. Everyone takes risks - it's just being informed and deciding which to take and which to eliminate. Only you can decide that.

 

[TimT]

Years back there was a rule I read on here often.
4 Step of sanatising
1. Clean
2. Clean
3. Clean
4. Sanatise
You cannot sanatise a dirty environment.

Just yesterday I was reading some instructions for a method of breaking malted barley up - you throw it in a tin can with some 'clean rocks'. I remember thinking at the time - 'clean rocks? Isn't that a bit of an oxymoron, like 'clean dirt'?'

Then again I've also been known to say, 'who cares if there's a bit of dirt in the bottle, I've just boiled the hell out of it. That's clean dirt....'

 

[Black Devil Dog]

Just yesterday I was reading some instructions for a method of breaking malted barley up - you throw it in a tin can with some 'clean rocks'.

I'd throw those instructions into a tin can with a live match.

 

[indica86]

I didn't take the tap off the FV for 8 years.

 

[Aaron1.0]

This thread makes me think of monks in the middle ages using wooden kives and gorse to strain the mash. I wonder if they had many issues with infections? I guess all they had access to was boiling water for sterilising.

 

[JDW81]

This thread makes me think of monks in the middle ages using wooden kives and gorse to strain the mash. I wonder if they had many issues with infections? I guess all they had access to was boiling water for sterilising.

I've never been a fan of looking at how people did things hundreds of years ago. We've come a long way since then and brewing practices have changed a lot. While the basic premise may be the same, the science behind it is now understood and the importance of temperature, cleanliness and sanitisation are not really debatable.

I'm not suggesting the monks were taking dumps in their fermenting barrels, far from it, however people often talk about the monks, or their grandfather's beer but how any people have actually tasted it? It might taste like ass by our modern standards.

The monks may have made great beer, I just don't think we should be referring to brewing practices we can't make a quality judgement on due to the passing of many decades to centuries if we haven't actually tasted it, or had the opportunity to compare to modern best practice e

JD.

 

[Dunkelbrau]

This thread makes me think of monks in the middle ages using wooden kives and gorse to strain the mash. I wonder if they had many issues with infections? I guess all they had access to was boiling water for sterilising.

Considering they didn't add yeast, and wild yeast would have taken hold, I would say 100% of brews were "infected"