Late Hopping And No Chilling Guide

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Nelson wouldn't deal with no-chill, unless it was a flameout or cube addition. At best, it'd be 10 minutes from flameout, but no more.

I've only done 3 no chills (I generally chill), but I know what Nelson does too long - it's got a real tea harsh bitterness if used too long.

However, as a late hop addition it works fantastically.

Goomba

 

[stux]

Interesting observation there. I have also found the same thing especially with a high aa hop like Nelson. If I were making this recipe I'd either be going argon style or cube hope and hop tea.

I just made an cube of this NS Ale.

I changed the 80 min to 60 min, then to 75 min

then I added everything 15 minutes later.

The 5 minute hops I cube-hopped. and the whirlpool hops will by french pressed

As opposed to my first batch, which I just did normally, but it was a little bit too bitter, and lacking in aroma into the fermenter, so I french pressed the last addition... again.

That one was lovely... except the overt bitterness.

 

[Mayor of Mildura]

Nelson wouldn't deal with no-chill, unless it was a flameout or cube addition. At best, it'd be 10 minutes from flameout, but no more.

I've only done 3 no chills (I generally chill), but I know what Nelson does too long - it's got a real tea harsh bitterness if used too long.

However, as a late hop addition it works fantastically.

Goomba

As an experiment I made an all Nelson Pilsner (no chilled). Bittering addition, 30 minute addition and cube. Beer turned out awesome. I was quite surprised. I think the key to Nelson is to be careful with early additions as the iboo's can sneak up on you. In this instance the bittering addition was small (12 ibu) 30 minute (15 ibu) and cube (19 ibu by my patented iboo calculation).


Cheers

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

As an experiment I made an all Nelson Pilsner (no chilled). Bittering addition, 30 minute addition and cube. Beer turned out awesome. I was quite surprised. I think the key to Nelson is to be careful with early additions as the iboo's can sneak up on you. In this instance the bittering addition was small (12 ibu) 30 minute (15 ibu) and cube (19 ibu by my patented iboo calculation).


Cheers

100% agree. I generally avoid 60 minute additions and the one successful 60 min I've had with Nelson was approx 10IBU worth, so not much.

I generally add it either as a 30 minute bittering addition and 10 min flavour addition. Works well as a dry hopper as well.

Nelson is a hop that needs care - done well, it's fantastic. Done poorly it's as nasty as those birds on "All Worked Up".

Goomba

 

[Gar]

Put down my first no-chill beer today, I hope the results are good because it makes for such a cruisy brewday, had the whole thing done, dusted and cleaned by lunchtime :beerbang:

Amazing how long these 25L cubes hold the heat, its nearly five and its still quite warm

 

[Mayor of Mildura]

Done poorly it's as nasty as those birds on "All Worked Up".

Goomba

:lol: I had to google that.

 

[OneEye]

Interesting observation there. I have also found the same thing especially with a high aa hop like Nelson. If I were making this recipe I'd either be going argon style or cube hope and hop tea.

Yeah I'm pretty sure it must have something to do with the high AA% hops. I did a NoChill Pumpkin Ale bittered with Hallertau but didn't notice a big difference but two that Ive done with Nelson and then Galaxy have come out almost undrinkable. All part of the learning curve I guess!

 

[ekul]

I did and its tasting fantastic. A hop flower got into the keg though and my flow rate is really slow. Kinda good though, means the keg will last a litttle longer and have time to clear up properly It is making me seriously consider gettting a filter

Hey ekul, Did you get a chance to do this yet? Would love to know how you went. I did a NC version of Ross's Nelson Summer Ale and it came out very bitter. I didn't adjust the hop additions at all as I had read that some people found the difference neglible but this last batch of mine is tasting like cats piss haha
I'm thinking this method might be the way to go with recipe's that include a lot of late hop additions

 

[bullsneck]

I am considering a 10min Pale this weekend and was planning on not using hops in the kettle, but rather bittering methode de argonais.

Is there a problem by not adding bittering hops in the kettle and waiting until no-chill does its thing and then bitter on the stove?

I hope my ramblings are comprehensible.

 

[black_labb]

I am considering a 10min Pale this weekend and was planning on not using hops in the kettle, but rather bittering methode de argonais.

Is there a problem by not adding bittering hops in the kettle and waiting until no-chill does its thing and then bitter on the stove?

I hope my ramblings are comprehensible.

From what I understand you want to brew a beer where you no chill and add the hops to the cube for flavour, aroma and some bitterness and adjust the final bitterness by doing a separate boil on the stove?

That should work well, though I don't understand why you wouldn't add the bittering hops to the boil instead of a separate boil on the side. Is the idea to do the boil after evaluating the bitterness? I don't know how you would be trying to evaluate the bitterness before it is fermented out.

If you are doing an american pale then I'd consider only adding hops to the cube. I've done a number of hoppy beers with all or near all the hops in the cube with good effect. I do tend to use the higher alpha hops (I like the kiwi hops for this) so that I don't need huge volumes of the stuff to get the effect.

I'm sipping on a rye-apa with sticklebract and pacific gem that I brewed about 6 months ago. I would of drank it earlier had I not been travelling overseas for 4.5 months. I have a hard life

edit: I don't wirlpool as I let the trub settle in the cube and siphon the clear wort off the trub and I usually still have my element on until the keggle is half drained so my cube hops get very close to the 100 degree boil. If I'm not adding more than 25g of cube hops I estimate 20 minutes equivalent, if more I guess for 15 minutes equivalent.

 

[bullsneck]

I was going to just boil 3 or so liters of wort from the cube for 10mins, adding the hops as it reaches boiling point. My question was really aimed at whether or not cubing requires a bitterness addition (whether that be 60min or whenever) knowing that hops act as a preserver.

Note: brewing Sunday, doing mini-boil and yeast pitch Monday.

 

[black_labb]

I'm not sure what you mean exactly bullsneck. I usually aim for an IBU relative to style, 35-45IBU is pretty usual for an APA for me. with an OG of around 1055 it takes about 70g of 12% AA hops for ~40IBU of bitterness. You get different effects from different boil times and if you are after flavour and aroma then cube hops are a good way to go. You get a bonus bitterness so you don't need to use much bittering hops.

If you're not familiar with the calculationd give www.brewmate.net a try. Just punching numbers and comparing them to style guidelines can be helpful in figuring out what the effects of ingredients and times are. Just remember that boiling hops for a while will boil off the flavour and the aroma, but if you keep it short (or cube hopping) you keep the flavour and aroma. but get less bitterness extracted from the hops.

 

[OneEye]

Black Labb, what bullsneck is planning on doing is this. Brewday as normal... 60 minute boil except no hops added. After boil is done he runs it off into the cube to no-chill. He'll put the cube into the fridge overnight and when he comes back to it the next day it should be around ~4C at which point he runs off about 3-4 litres and procedes to boil that up on the stovetop. It is now that he will be adding his late hop additions, in this case a shit load of hops for 10 minutes. After 10 minutes Bullshead will transfer the hot wort into the cold wort bring it perfectly into pitching temps. Pitch yeast and off you go!
Bullsneck, I think you'll be fine doing it this way. If you're planning to pitch the very next day then the preservative effects of the hops won't come into play. Just as long as the hot wort is transferred into the cube soon enough so that its able to pasturise the inside of the cube.

 

[black_labb]

That makes sense. I was getting the impression that he is more worried about the bitterness levels than the aroma hopping. That sounds fine

 

[bullsneck]

I've never no-chilled without a 60min addition of hops so I wasn't sure if hops were required when you NC wort.

Thanks for the help.

Sorry for the confusion there Black Labb

 

[bowie in space]

Argon,

I was under the impression that it's better to pitch yeast as soon as possible onto a full volume of aerated wort.

Hopefully not a stupid question, but how does the larger mass of wort (now in your fermenter) remain aerated in the time it takes to boil and chill the late hops?

I did notice you do get a little more aeration when you pour you 3L late hops into the rest of the wort, then your yeast slurry and obviously your beer turned out pretty good, but just curious if you used any further aeration techniques.

My cubes have a tap on them. Do you reckon I could draw three litres from the cube, boil and chill late hops then add everything to the fermenter in the one motion for maximum aeration?

Bowie

 

[argon]

I consider it to be fine. The reboil only takes about 15mins before adding it to the cool portion anyway, so not a great deal of time to wait. Also, because i've poured it in the fermentor at 4C it will have absorbed alot of oxygen compared to doing it at ambient.

For instance this beer started at 1060 and finished at 1011 for apparent attenuation of 81.67%

If you have concerns, do as you've proposed or give it a quick thrashing with a slotted spoon for more aeration after pitching.

 

[argon]

Was going to post over in the other thread - Nc10min Ipa... but it was drifting, so thought i'd take it over here, as it seemed to relate.

Try Le Methode Argonoise.

Probably won't surprise that I employ the above method and have had some great results. I now have a plate chiller as part of my setup and have used it in the last 2 batches with so far great results. Surprisingly, it hasn't added as much time to the brewday as i had thought... which is a bonus.

I think this method would work, but it just seems a though you have a 2 day, 2 stage brew day.
I'm looking at having 1 brew day in the shortest time possible and for $130, i may as well just buy a plate chiller when compared to this method.

personally, I would rather have 1 brew day (inclusive of pitching my yeast), have no hop schedule adjustments and make beer as the recipe is intended.

Like I said, this will probably work well, but involves a bit more dicking around.

BF

However i totally agree with you here BF... it is an extra bit of dicking about further to the initial brew day. It's not for everyone. And even though i have the chiller, I still plan to no chill the occasional brew (especially those that are not overly reliant on late hopping).

It's about what fits your style. For me of late, i've wanted to get everything done and dusted in one session, i'm sure in the future i'll want something else. So... i'm pretty happy having options at hand, chilled, no chilled (with no adjustments) and No Chill with the reboil + hopping method.

 

[WarmBeer]

Probably won't surprise that I employ the above method and have had some great results. I now have a plate chiller as part of my setup and have used it in the last 2 batches with so far great results. Surprisingly, it hasn't added as much time to the brewday as i had thought... which is a bonus.

Say it ain't so. Say. It. Ain't. So.

From now on, let it be known as "Le Methode Traitorous"

 

[argon]

Say it ain't so. Say. It. Ain't. So.

From now on, let it be known as "Le Methode Traitorous"

yeah i know :huh: I felt bad until i tasted the first quick chilled IPA :icon_drool2: