Lager Receipe Critique

[dj_yiakamon]

Hi guys,

Still using Kits and Bits but i am wanting to experiment in making my own recipe based on what i am starting to like rather than a specific clone.

basically the overall idea is for a light (colour) crisp lager that has some fruit/citrus flavour and aroma.

I have heard alot about the passionfruit flavour and aroma of galaxy hops so i am curious to give them a go.

Work in progress recipe is as follows:

1.7kg Morgans Golden Saaz Pilsner Can
1.5kg Morgans Extra Pale liquid malt extract
20g Galaxy hops (10 min Quickboil)
10g Galaxy hops (dry hopped) AND/OR
10g Saaz hops (dry hopped)

Filled to 21L

What are people's thoughts on the above recipe??
Would you steep any grains into the mix? (never done them before)


Thanks

 

[Adamt]

Don't bother with using the Saaz, they'll be completely overshadowed by the Galaxy.

What yeast do you plan on using? If you want a good lager, you'll need to get a good lager yeast (S-189 is great, about 20g dry will do good) and keep your fermentation temperature well under control (~10C).

 

[dj_yiakamon]

Ive only ever used Saflager S-23 and i forgot to add in the OP that im open to suggestion on a different yeast...

I have a fermentation temps under control with a fridge and fridgemate setup so no issue there...

ok so minus the saaz dry hop and using 2 packets S189 yeast.


Cool, any other thoughts?

 

[Fourstar]

That looks pretty good IMO, only other option to give it some 'malty/grain character' you could steep say 200-300g of carapils in a few L of boiling water.

Get yourself some cheesecloth or a 1m length of voile cloth for dimmeys,draw it all up and steep like a teabag in 70odd degree water for 20 or so minutes. simply draw out the grain bag, boil it with your hops and proceed as normal!

that will improve the malty/grainyness of your beer. make it more a partial/kit and bits as you will take over some flavours/dextrins from the carapils malt/grain husks

 

[dj_yiakamon]

Excellent sounds good ill include that also :icon_cheers:

 

[Phoney]

Why 2 packets of yeast?

 

[Adamt]

Lagers need bigger yeast populations. Underpitching can lead to problems such as underattenuation and off-flavours.

You could use S-23, you probably wouldn't notice much difference... but use 2 packs

 

[Bribie G]

Other good lager yeasts are W-34/70 and Hurlimann Swiss lager yeasts, both available from the sponsors at the top of the page. The yeast that comes with that particular Morgans tin is Mauribrew Lager yeast and does a reasonable job. I did a side by side with W-34/70 and Mauribrew with an identical lager recipe a couple of months ago and took examples to a case swap BBQ and whilst the W-34/70 was given the nod, the Mauri which is less than a buck a packet didn't get basically faulted either, and turns out a perhaps more bland but quite acceptable lager if you are just experimenting at the moment. Also ferments out nicely at 17 degrees so you don't have to wait long for results :icon_cheers: At the price you can chuck two or even three packs in to get a good strong fermentation going quickly.

 

[The Big Burper]

Why 2 packets of yeast?

ph,

If you pitch at room temp then chill slowly in the fridge, one packet will do.

If the wort is at lager temps ( 10dC or so), you will need 2 packs to get it started.

cheers
BB

 

[Fourstar]

If you pitch at room temp then chill slowly in the fridge, one packet will do.
If the wort is at lager temps ( 10dC or so), you will need 2 packs to get it started.
cheers
BB

And how does that make sense exaclty? theres still going to be the same amount of yeast growth at low temps or high temps.. it just takes longer.

 

[Bribie G]

And how does that make sense exaclty? theres still going to be the same amount of yeast growth at low temps or high temps.. it just takes longer.

gets it to the brain faster :beerbang:

 

[thylacine]

And how does that make sense exaclty? theres still going to be the same amount of yeast growth at low temps or high temps.. it just takes longer.

Episode 6/15/09 (15 June) of "Brew Strong" ie. Jamil & Palmer covers lagering/ageing & yeast considerations...

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/

 

[Fourstar]

Episode 6/15/09 (15 June) of "Brew Strong" ie. Jamil & Palmer covers lagering/ageing & yeast considerations...

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/

yeah and ive listened to it. Its got nothing to-do with what i posted. There is no validity to his post.. if you pitch the same amount of yeast in low temps or high temps.. the amount of yeast you finish with is the same. Pitching rates are not governed by pitching temp its by: ale or lager base count 750,000 or 1,500,000 * ml of wort * OG in plato

So a standard lager @ 1.050 @ 23L would be 1500000*23000*12.5 = 431.25 billion cells of yeast.

So why would you pitch 2 packets only if you pitch cold... makes no sense whatsoever.

i get bribies post, that makes sense, you also have the trade off of phenols and high temp ferment by products, but atleast his makes sense.

 

[seemax]

Sounds like a good K&B lager. S-23 is ok but perhaps a tad fruity. S-189 would be my pick @ 10C.

As per 4*'s advice.... if you have the time and will, try steeping some carapils (also called carafoam by some).

You will read loads of advice on lagers and whilst performing a diacetyl rest and long cold conditioning will produce ideal results, you can still make great beer by bottling after fermentation. Leave it 2 weeks, check SG over few days, if done, bring it up to room temp for 2 days, then bottle OR rack to secondary and crash chill (close to 0C) for as long as you can wait then bottle.

Good luck!!

 

[The Big Burper]

And how does that make sense exaclty? theres still going to be the same amount of yeast growth at low temps or high temps.. it just takes longer.

Fourstar,

Just going on what's on the Saflager S23 packet.

Evidently you know more than they do!

:icon_cheers:
BB

 

[manticle]

Maybe yeast instructions are as poxy as kit instructions?

 

[Fourstar]

Just going on what's on the Saflager S23 packet.
Evidently you know more than they do!

:blink: ...... no comment.

I do know for a fact they report different pitching rates on their bulk packs compared to their 'single serve' packs too. Dave (owner of Greensy home brewing) and I (along with 1 of the worthog guys) where trying to deciper their lager pitching rates. It seems like they are overly generous with their pitching rates for single serves over bulk packs (worked from a per L/g serve).

just looked at a pack i have as a backup incase my starters go south and YES you are correct with those instructions. They do however, advise to 'sprinkle onto wort' on the pack. On the other hand, on their website it describes rehydration before pitching (which is known to benifit yeast growth so your wort doesnt pass through their cell walls when they are rehydrating (i believe it causes mutations). Id say if you are pitching into cold/lager temp wort you may leave up to 1/2 of the cells dormant/not rehydrate correctly or just experience a really long lag time (trusting most hb'ers, i'd say if they didnt see activity after 2 days they'd look at chucking it if they have NFI about yeast.) hence the call for 2 packs at those temps. Another thing to note, rule of thumb for a lager you need double the amount of starting cells~ when pitching compared to a lager. Both the S23 and US05 are 12.5g packs with the same cell counts. That means, regardless if your temps you SHOULD always use 2 packs, but can get away with one.

IMO, never pitch just 1 lager sachet of 12.5g yeast unless you really have to and always rehydrate before pitching.

Beers! :icon_cheers:

 

[unterberg]

My 2 cents:

Forget about the 2 packs of dried yeast and get a liquid yeast for the same price....
Lagers just take longer because the yeast works slower at the lower temp - nothing wrong with that!

 

[Fourstar]

My 2 cents:
Forget about the 2 packs of dried yeast and get a liquid yeast for the same price....
Lagers just take longer because the yeast works slower at the lower temp - nothing wrong with that!

yeah.. and build a 2L starter to have the same amount of cells. Convenience, $4-5~ less, and less chance of infection is worth more to some, especially the unexperienced or those who are not as sound with sanitisation/cleanliness as others.

Cheers! :icon_cheers:

 

[The Big Burper]

etc etc

Both the S23 and US05 are 12.5g packs with the same cell counts. That means, regardless if your temps you SHOULD always use 2 packs, but can get away with one.

IMO, never pitch just 1 lager sachet of 12.5g yeast unless you really have to and always rehydrate before pitching.

Beers! :icon_cheers:

Fourstar,

I see your reasoning.

My local HBS has only Fermentis packet yeasts at $4.60 a pop, so two packs gets
a bit exy for me. I've done only one pack pitched at 18 and is now in the fridge on it's way down to 12 -15.

I let you know how it goes.

cheers
BB