Lactic Acid 88% How much is too much to reduce pH

[Coalminer]

Screen shots would be better, most would be reluctant to open attachments
What version BrunWater is that? Latest 42720 paid version is up to date and personalised with free advice from Martin via email

 

[mynameisrodney]

Thanks mate, just using the free version 1.25. Screenshots below.

 

[scruffy40nil]

Ok I've gone through the spreadsheet about 5 times now and I'm still stumped. Can somebody who uses Bru'n water take a look at this and see what I'm doing wrong? It all set up as per recipe in this thread, and Ryde water report from Sydney water.

Rodney,
Just thought I'd keep you updated, I added the whole 16.8ml of 88% of lactic acid to the mash water and my pH reading was bang on 5.20 after 15mins of mashing..

 

[duncbrewer]

That's good, hope your pH meter is right. Seems like it is!

 

[mynameisrodney]

Good to hear dude. I think I'll make the switch in what I use.

I also need to decide what to do about a pH meter. I bought a milwaukee one a few years back. But at the time thought it was a one time purchase. Didn't realise electrodes only last a year or so and are 50 bucks a pop. When the first one died I didn't replace it and have just been relying on brun water being correct. Whoops.

 

[duncbrewer]

My cheap 30 dollar meter working well, now that I have protected the electrode with the preserving solution. Although that cost as much as the meter nearly but will last a long time.
I did give up with it when unreliable and trusted to luck, used brewersfriend water calc and gazed at pH paper.

Interestingly one brew I have on now a sour IPA so I'm monitoring the pH of that waiting for it to hit 3.6 and then can throw in the kveik.

 

[scruffy40nil]

That's good, hope your pH meter is right. Seems like it is!

I purchased a new head for the kegland ph meter.. I know they're cheap and can't rely too much

That's good, hope your pH meter is right. Seems like it is!

I purchased a new electrode head for the kegland pH meter as I wasn't using the electrolyte solution when storing my last head.. I'd rather get a more reliable pH meter but they seem to work OK..

 

[MHB]

I got one of the Kegland ones to see me through after my good pH meter crashed. So far its fine, good value for money, ordered a new probe with the meter.
New probe for mine is around $400 but it does a bit more than just pH, the price you pay for lab gear can be scary.
Most important to store the probe properly, at a minimum keep it wet in distilled water or better yet electrode storage solution, calibrate before use, don’t stick them into samples that are too hot (personally - over 40oC is a no-no)
My good one tells you when the probe is getting too old, with a basic unit how long it takes to calibrate is a fair indicator, as they ware they take longer and longer to calibrate. Do the ~7pH, then a ~4ph two point calibration, then go back to your 7pH standard, if it isn’t spot on, it might be time to replace it.
Mark

 

[scruffy40nil]

Good to hear dude. I think I'll make the switch in what I use.

I also need to decide what to do about a pH meter. I bought a milwaukee one a few years back. But at the time thought it was a one time purchase. Didn't realise electrodes only last a year or so and are 50 bucks a pop. When the first one died I didn't replace it and have just been relying on brun water being correct. Whoops.

Good to hear dude. I think I'll make the switch in what I use.

I also need to decide what to do about a pH meter. I bought a milwaukee one a few years back. But at the time thought it was a one time purchase. Didn't realise electrodes only last a year or so and are 50 bucks a pop. When the first one died I didn't replace it and have just been relying on brun water being correct. Whoops.

I'm using the cheap kegland ph meter that you can change the heads for about 12 bucks.. I do want to upgrade to a more reliable meter just so I know my readings are 90% correct.. I did have to change my mash temp from 66 to 68c as I left my elements on at strike temp when mashing in.. I was able to bring it down to 68c, not overly happy with this result as the whole point of having a 5.2 pH and mashing at 66 was for a drier beer..

 

[scruffy40nil]

I got one of the Kegland ones to see me through after my good pH meter crashed. So far its fine, good value for money, ordered a new probe with the meter.
New probe for mine is around $400 but it does a bit more than just pH, the price you pay for lab gear can be scary.
Most important to store the probe properly, at a minimum keep it wet in distilled water or better yet electrode storage solution, calibrate before use, don’t stick them into samples that are too hot (personally - over 40oC is a no-no)
My good one tells you when the probe is getting too old, with a basic unit how long it takes to calibrate is a fair indicator, as they ware they take longer and longer to calibrate. Do the ~7pH, then a ~4ph two point calibration, then go back to your 7pH standard, if it isn’t spot on, it might be time to replace it.
Mark

Thanks for that Mark.. I replace my probe head on the kegland meter just before this brew day.. because as you said my last probe was just sitting in the cupboard without the solution and just couldn't trust it was going to work correctly.. I've purchase the solution now and a few more calibration packets..

 

[mynameisrodney]

Are you talking about this one?

Digital pH Meter | Pen Style | KegLand

That's what I'm looking at as a replacement. Heading to the brew shop today for gas so might pick one up.

 

[scruffy40nil]

Are you talking about this one?

Digital pH Meter | Pen Style | KegLand

That's what I'm looking at as a replacement. Heading to the brew shop today for gas so might pick one up.

Yep thats the one.

 

[duncbrewer]

Well that one pH meter looks light years ahead of mine. But I'm confident it's currently okay and will watch for the signs that it is over the hill and replace it.

Have just been given two TDS ( total dissolved solids ) meters. Not sure how useful they are.

 

[MHB]

Can be very useful, I use a TDS meter to monitor the life of my carbon filters, as the amount of Chlorine getting through increases so does the conductivity of the water (TDS and conductivity meters are basically the same thing).
Can also be useful if you are trying to get the most out of a sparge, as soon as tannins start extracting the conductivith goes way up. Probably more useful to a commercial brewer where percents count, not so much for a home brewer.
If your water changes from time to time a TDS reading can be used to tell which water supply you are on. Can affect how much salts you need, again probably a bit over the top for most home brewers, unless you get wildly different water.
If you keep good records taking a TDS reading can tell you if you have screwed up a salt addition.
In all of the above you need to be keeping very good records, probably in a graphic form so you can see when somethin is off script.
Really not something I would spend a bomb on, nor a lot of time, well not as a home brewer. Commercially it can make a big enough difference to be part of the standard procedure.

The $400 probe I need to replace is a combi pH, TSD/conductive/ precision temp probe.
Remember they need calibrating to, so you need a standard solution (mine is 1380uS IIRC)
There are lots of ways to spend time and money in this hobby...
Mark

 

[duncbrewer]

Can also be useful if you are trying to get the most out of a sparge, as soon as tannins start extracting the conductivith goes way up. Probably more useful to a commercial brewer where percents count, not so much for a home brewer.

There are lots of ways to spend time and money in this hobby...
Mark

Might be useful in the role of sparge assessment for me as there's an issue somewhere as you mentioned yesterday regarding efficiency.
Still haven't started that thread but I will in time.

 

[mynameisrodney]

Well I bought one of those Beverage Dr pH meters last week, then forgot to use it on the weekend haha. Whoops.

That said, I used brewfather rather than Bru'n water to calculate how much acid that I needed, and got ~10% higher efficiency than previous batch. Can't say for sure that this is the cause as it was a different grain bill, and I'm still getting used to my Guten.

 

[mynameisrodney]

Ok brewed again yesterday. I added the amount of acid given to me by Brewfather to get me to 5.2, even though Bru'n water was saying 4.6.

15min into the mash I took a sample, cooled it, and measured 5.25 on my new Ph meter (Beverage doctor one in the end).

I still for the life of me cant figure out what I was doing wrong with Bru'n water, but at this point I'm not going to spend any more time on it and will just make the switch.