Kegging Setup CO2 leak - driving me insane

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Roger that, Argon. HAHA

Yep, will definitely be expecting a refill given it's clearly manufacturer issue not user related! Once that is done it also appears I need to give some TLC and attention to my kegs, perhaps I haven't found my life partner after all!?

 

[wobblythongs]

I had the same issue with quick disconnects, if it wasn't clicked in straight it would leak very slowly when any slight pressure was put on the hoses.

Same here just bought stainless gas ball valves for $17 off KK to replace plastic ones, After testing problem has gone without even replacing O ring on posts.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Update on this KK gave me a free bottle refill, took back the 2.5year old regulator and let me swap it for a wider fridge drip tray (I'm adding 2 taps soon), so while the product quality lets them down their customer service does not!

Received my micromatic regulator, gas manifold and thicker Valpar superflexmaster2 10mm OD gas line, time to put it altogether and leak test then drill through fridge and finally put gas leak issues aside, hopefully!

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

It's DONE (well... 2 weeks ago)! Hole drilled, manifold installed, first hefe poured that was purged, carbonated and served with the new gas system.

Basically just drilled through the plastic using a piece of wood as a depth limiter, poked around inside with a screwdriver all I could feel was foam insulation to the back outer metal surface. Still completely shat myself when drilling the hole. Wrapped the gas line with some sticky tape where it passes through the hole to prevent cutting the outer diameter of the line. Used a John Guest union off the regulator bottle so that I can disconnect the bottle easily from the fridge.

No leaks, tested both submerged under water before installing to fridge and by a "drop test" once installed.

Also weighed the gas bottled after being connected to 4 kegs for 2 weeks and no change in weight - good.

Main issue I encountered was with keg king manifold I did need to undo 3 of the 4 valves, apply more thread sealant to the threads and re-tighten, as well as the hose barb in 2 of them needing nipping up tighter as it leaked there also. I also lubed the seal around the pin in my disconnects with Skerra lube and now the pin does not leak, previously I think the seals were dry and would leak if not connected to a keg.

Some pics of it along the way and finished setup below in my gallery.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/gallery/image/8934-hole-drilling-careful-careful/

Thanks to all for the advice/assistance, particularly Martin at National Homebrew

 

[stux]

Basically just drilled through the plastic using a piece of wood as a depth limiter, poked around inside with a screwdriver all I could feel was foam insulation to the back outer metal surface. Still completely shat myself when drilling the hole. Wrapped the gas line with some sticky tape where it passes through the hole to prevent cutting the outer diameter of the line.

I use airlock grommets to line the holes in the fridge wall... bit like this

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Nice one! I was wrapped to get through unscatched, be too scared to drill the hole bigger and used my biggest drill bit anyway and was tight squeeze. Its 10mm OD line...

 

[TheWiggman]

Was thinking about starting a new thread but this will do. I have a Keg King reg and it's been my only reg since day dot. I had a drama with it some time ago (see earlier in the thread) but have noticed I only get about 8-10 kegs out of a 2.6kg bottle if I'm lucky. No other experience, so accepted it. Others have mentioned 16-20 kegs . It's run out again after a few months so I disconnected it from everything and gassed it up. Walked away, and came back an hour later to see the pressure gauges at zero. I put my investigator hat on.

1. Dunked all disconnects and tees into water for a minute - no leak identified
2. Single disconnect - still leaking
3. Sprayed every thread on the reg I could see - no leak identified
4. Replaced the gas line (assuming a split line) - still leaking
5. Undid the reg and had a good hard look. No apparent issues. Gave all threads and sealing surfaces a lick of liquid sealant and did them all back up.

STILL LEAKING. It takes about 15 mins to drop 70 kPa in 500mm of gas line, but it's a leak all the same.
There is a leak somewhere within this reg and I'm guessing it's through the centre of the diaphragm. I'm giving up, might do a QldKev and not bother with KK stuff any more unless someone can give me some good advice from experience on where the issue lies.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

I can only think of elimination of all possibilities which means all threads and connections or replace the dial? Is that what you mean?

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Oh, um, 16 to 20 kegs for 2.6kg bottled co2 is doing very well and conservative. I do more than just push beer with my co2. I am still working out how much I use for my brew house turn over but that seems ok to me. I have a larger bottle. Yet to make a comparison to your turn over etc but that doesn't sound bad to me... :unsure:

 

[Inconceivable]

Was thinking about starting a new thread but this will do. I have a Keg King reg and it's been my only reg since day dot. I had a drama with it some time ago (see earlier in the thread) but have noticed I only get about 8-10 kegs out of a 2.6kg bottle if I'm lucky. No other experience, so accepted it. Others have mentioned 16-20 kegs . It's run out again after a few months so I disconnected it from everything and gassed it up. Walked away, and came back an hour later to see the pressure gauges at zero. I put my investigator hat on.

1. Dunked all disconnects and tees into water for a minute - no leak identified
2. Single disconnect - still leaking
3. Sprayed every thread on the reg I could see - no leak identified
4. Replaced the gas line (assuming a split line) - still leaking
5. Undid the reg and had a good hard look. No apparent issues. Gave all threads and sealing surfaces a lick of liquid sealant and did them all back up.

STILL LEAKING. It takes about 15 mins to drop 70 kPa in 500mm of gas line, but it's a leak all the same.
There is a leak somewhere within this reg and I'm guessing it's through the centre of the diaphragm. I'm giving up, might do a QldKev and not bother with KK stuff any more unless someone can give me some good advice from experience on where the issue lies.

Ok so hang on a second. Aren't you going back on your own advice from Jan '15 here? When you said you "disconnected it from everything" just now what is still connected to the gas bottle?

Just the gas bottle, a reg, a gas line from reg to a manifold, and a manifold with all taps shutoff might be an example of a minimum and if this doesn't hold pressure then you don't need to bother looking at your Disconnects.

I guess I'm confused by your process of elimination because you want to be confident the gas is holding pressure in the minimal setup before you start putting Disconnects, MFLs, and Posts in play

I've lost two Co2 bottles in the last 3 x months and the causes for me where:

1. using too many JG imitation connectors on the gas side; I had a few leaking - Fix was to piss them all off and use large ID line with barbs
2. a leak coming from under a new liquid post I hadn't tightened down enough
3. a leak coming from the top of a new MFL that was screwed on to a disconnect that I seemed to have made too tight
4. leaks coming from the PRV which wasn't re-seated correctly because the pull ring was holding it slightly ajar

My favourite diagnostic tool now is one of the kids little paint brushes that I use to paint morning fresh dish liquid on every seam. It seems to stick better and bubble more obviously than some of the other methods I've used to try to show bubbles.

anyway good luck I feel your pain. It's a nice feeling to use the process of elimination and see your setup hold pressure time and again until finally it doesn't and you know whatever the new variable is must be the issue

 

[TheWiggman]

No manifolds in my case and I have mostly push on JG fittings. With a reg, 500mm of line and a single gas disconnect I'm losing pressure - with the disconnect underwater not showing any bubbles. The leak is in the reg or at the bottle washer, and the bottle washer is brand new (replaced today). I'd love to dunk the reg underwater but not sure how good that is for anything. I suppose at this rate it's a bin job, might as well.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Bin what part though? Its just one singular part that is failing.
I try to eliminate parts etc. I have gone to a manifold but I'm sceptical about its non return valved ability. Another story.

I've never used JG stuff. I never like the idea of (easy plug in) over real mechanical seal like a screwable hose clamp that I prefer.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

No manifolds in my case and I have mostly push on JG fittings. With a reg, 500mm of line and a single gas disconnect I'm losing pressure - with the disconnect underwater not showing any bubbles. The leak is in the reg or at the bottle washer, and the bottle washer is brand new (replaced today). I'd love to dunk the reg underwater but not sure how good that is for anything. I suppose at this rate it's a bin job, might as well.

You can dunk the whole regulator, but you'd need to make certain you dried everything including the internals. CO2 + Water = carbonic acid. You could make up a spray bottle of strong water and detergent and spray the regulator entirely and look for active bubbles even very very slight ones should show up.

Anyways, more practical suggestion might be to firstly check that you are opening the cylinder valve FULLY, as just cracking it open a little bit puts most of the pressure force up the valve stem and that will just sit there leaking continually. Second would be to check the thread in the body of the regulator where the inlet stem comes in, I had a KK reg that had a hairline crack here as they use such thin metal and all the regulator weight sits here plus forces when you move the cylinder with regulator connected.

 

[mstrelan]

Anyways, more practical suggestion might be to firstly check that you are opening the cylinder valve FULLY, as just cracking it open a little bit puts most of the pressure force up the valve stem and that will just sit there leaking continually.

Is this a thing???

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Is this a thing???

Yes as the valve seat doesn't fully clear the main cylinder port so the path of least resistance is against the valve steam seal which is usually just a couple of orings... 50-300bar pressure that cylinders can be filled to depending on gas is a lot of force...

 

[TheWiggman]

Bin what part though? Its just one singular part that is failing.

The regulator. The leak is between the outlet of the bottle and the outlet of the regulator. And it's not necessarily a single part.

I don't leave the gas half open, I give it at least a turn when it's on. I've gotta get a refill but I'll definitely dunk that reg once it's back. A number of sponsors have higher quality regulators (Micromatic, Tseuco) so considering I'm probably down about $80-100 in gas over the years it's a worthwhile investment. In the meantime I can tolerate a very minor gas leakage.

 

[damoninja]

Maybe already covered but the nylon seal should be replaced every time you remove the regulator, take a look at an old one the face won't be completely flat it will have a compression that won't always get pressed against in exactly the same place.

 

[Rocker1986]

I turn the gas bottle on fully as in, open it up until it doesn't move any further. I have been using a Micromatic regulator for the last year and a half and it hasn't faulted so far.

 

[Grott]

Try plumbers tap on bottle thread and smear keg lube on both sides of the washer. Then get some soapy water and a brush and turn pressure on reg to 40psi, any leaks should be detected if not heard.

 

[damoninja]

Try plumbers tap on bottle thread and smear keg lube on both sides of the washer.

Tape = no no, you'll get bits of the crap down the inside of the regulator, great way to turn it in to a paper weight.

Dunno about lube, but as long as you made it a very very thin amount it might be OK.

For a 50c part though I'd say just replace and do it up ******* tight