Just Answering

[pk.sax]

I got my fair share of whopping from my old man. Nothing I appreciate or think made me any better.

But being held responsible for things I did from an early age does mean that I grew a particular aversion to making compromises, because they come back and bite you on the bum. And it hurts. It doesn't have to be a smack on the bum, when your mum looks at you and tells you she is disappointed that you stuffed up because you were lazy, that is enough. But that parent has to be a great example.

I work with adults, people that have kids, I don't think they are irresponsible or would be bad examples to their kids. But then, you step outside and you do see those as well.

 

[browndog]

There is a million miles difference between smacking a child and child abuse, as a loving parent, I will smack my kids so that one day when they are running towards a cliff and I scream out stop, they will listen to me.

 

[leiothrix]

Ok manticle, I agree with you entirely.

I do however, love how horrible a communication mechanism the internet is.

 

[manticle]

There is a million miles difference between smacking a child and child abuse,

Of course. The topic was never really about whether a parent should be able to smack their child under certain circumstances although I understand why that is a current issue.

Back track through the thread a bit and see where references to smacking (adults) came up.

@leothrix: I actually love the communication mechanism of the internet because it allows someone to expand on their point. Not everything I write or say is going to be necessarily clear the first time but when asked or questioned or challenged, I can expand or clarify. That's what makes good communication

 

[Rina]

Well, his wish list looks to me the exact things people have lost respect for with things getting easier in life in general.
Let's take a 15-16 year old for example, in ages past, if you quit school early and went into the workforce you could not generally expect to make much of a career that would lead to 'being rich'.
A parent will always be encouraging (and other means) thei kids to study further so they can get ahead in life. And the social strata you ended up in due to your life choices would be greatly linked to you commitment to learning early in life. Always something for the others to desire and want. Targets and goals in modernspeak.
Today, a Kid starting off in KFC or another retail job can afford almost nearly everything they'd want at that stage. How long you save for and wait is much shorter than what it would've been back in some day. The entire modern ethos of standardised wages etc actually destroys the incentive for working harde and smarter. Mind you, these incentives still exist in more professional jobs but considering what you can make in unskilled and semi-unskilled jobs the incentive for working harder actually goes way down. There was a threw a while back about how the quality of tradesmen has nosedived, partly because they make truckloads changing lightbulbs and taps. As I was saying, everything has a follow on effect. In creating the 'fairer', all inclusive society we have today, a lot of considerations for how people behave in reality seem to have been ignored. I'd say we all need a leash, different lengths. I say that as someone that has a major problem in life with rules, I'm always redefining them, sometimes much to the anger of people that find it very annoying to keep up with changes.

All that being said, it was an example. Entropy in itself isn't a force or a cause. It is a symptom of the phenomenon that changes are caused in nature due to things we do and then nature returns the favour.
I'll take Australia's great reliance on mining income atm, putting money into the hands of people downstream from that, in retail, services etc obviously has an effect. If it is no longer a requirement to be a nice person to be able to make more than minimum wage, you raise a generation of pricks.

Your hypothesis is interesting from a materialist (dare I say Marxist) perspective. Yes the average school leaver (say 16) may be able to afford the luxuries they want but at what cost? A retail or office administration job that has a high degree of alienation from the service they provide as opposed to a few decades ago where they would do a trade where there were higher degrees of 'job satisfaction'. A job where they can pay for all the 'luxuries' in life but not necessarily all the necessities such as housing, food, water, electricity since they still live with their parents due to 'cost of living' pressures. You have to wonder what a prolonged adolescence does to a person. Life simply becomes a race to see who can own the most toys. I know some of these people. You go out to dinner with them and they are the most boring people you will meet. I don't think it is healthy for a person or society. Conversely have you thought about the opposite about what 'standardised wages' bring- professionals such as doctors, engineers, teachers, lawyers that work for the prestige and goodwill their job brings rather then just for a pay check.

 

[leiothrix]

@Rina -- I'll summarize this by saying that "back in the day" we brought kids up to become adults. Lately we seem to be bringing kids up to be big kids, which doesn't help anyone.

(And yes, i brought up the Socrates quote up earlier, and I'm only 30, but still, kids these days . . .)

 

[Rina]

I don't think it's that simple to just lay blame on parents. There are a range of other issues at play as well.

 

[Fish13]

As far as prices go I think that's a bit of BS. Mainly talking about housing prices -- they used to be around 3x annual wage, now more like 6x or so.

That's a consequence of women in the workforce and housing prices expanding to fit a couples wages rather than that of one person (and for the record, women are equal, blah, blah, blah), but it makes it pretty hard for one person to buy a house on their own.

I blame the mining boom. the real estate agents/land developers being greedy and everyone in sydney selling up to leave NSW to WA becuase they realise that bob carr fucked up big time.


to jump from 150k to 300k in 6 months tells you someone out there made a fuckload and laughed all the way to the bank.