Jazz Up A Cider.

[heyyu]

hi making my first cider, used 20l shop apple /apple pear no preservative,used champagne yeast and is working away well.have taste tested and apple flavour seems to have dissapeared,will this return in time after bottling or should i rack and add more juice and a little lactose after final sg then bottle.this is a little new to me so i would appreciate your suggestions.thankyou :mellow:

 

[John_Smith]

Champagne yeast makes a very dry cider. At the end of primary fermentation, there is almost no residual sugar so basically all you can taste is the malic acid. Eventually this will mellow out and some of the apple flavour will return. You could add lactose to restore some sweetness but since this not the same as the original fruit sugar the flavour will not be the same. The best bet is to retain some of the original sweetness by either using a lower attenuating yeast or stopping the fermentation early.

In my cider experiments some evidence of mellowing can be tasted after 3 or 4 weeks but 6 months or more seems to be the timeframe required to make a drinkable cider from champagne yeast.

 

[bum]

A cider I have on for the missus (my first - both cider and wife) at the moment is finishing like a very cheap white wine when tasting the FG sample - is this the malic acid taste you're talking about? Christ, I'd be stoked if someone can tell me this will go away.

 

[pdilley]

A cider I have on for the missus (my first - both cider and wife) at the moment is finishing like a very cheap white wine when tasting the FG sample - is this the malic acid taste you're talking about? Christ, I'd be stoked if someone can tell me this will go away.

10 day old cider tastes nasty :icon_vomit:

#1 Age is your friend with Cider, the longer you age it the better it gets. so don't freak out and toss your brew at week 3 or 4 when you bottle it.
2, 3, 6 or ***12*** months aging does wonders for an uninfected cider.

#2 Traditional ciders can be up to 3 months before bottling to make sure it really is cleared properly. If I had the spare demijohns or other fermenters and not in a rush, then a basic apple cider would be left alone for at least eight weeks before bottling, the best indication a cider is ready for bottling without resorting to the hydrometer is seeing that all the yeast has dropped to the bottom and the brew is absolutely crystal clear.

#3 On bottling or racking, if it tastes nasty then don't toss it. Nasty being tangy, tart, harsh, or just plain un-apple-flavoured.
Only if it tastes like vinegar, or nailpolish remover, camel vomit, etc. - you may want to consider dumping it.

#4 Always hold back part of your brews for extended aging - 9 months to well over a year or two in a bottle or two is fine. This is so you can learn how much patience makes a top notch brew.


For Cider Maturation, the malo-lactic fermentation is carried out by non-slime forming strains of Leuconostoc mesenteroides, Lactobacillus collinoides and very rarely Pediococcus cerevisiae. These bacteria are readily inhibited by the levels of sulphur dioxide used in cider making yet ciders readily undergo malo-lactic fermentation in the spring/summer after they were made. The explanation for this is not certain, possibly lab strains of these organisms are more sensitive to sulphur dioxide than are wild strains, possibly the sulphur dioxide merely inhibits the bacteria and they subsequently recover, or possibly there are other organisms at work.

 

[bum]

Great to hear! I had already decided I was gonna put it away for 2 months before I even crack one but I was worried that it would continue to have the white wine quality and this would displease the boss. I wasn't even thinking about tipping it - no matter how bad I'd end up drinking it even if she refused.

 

[heyyu]

all maybe isnt lost,i thank you

 

[Plaz]

Champagne yeast makes a very dry cider. At the end of primary fermentation, there is almost no residual sugar so basically all you can taste is the malic acid. Eventually this will mellow out and some of the apple flavour will return. You could add lactose to restore some sweetness but since this not the same as the original fruit sugar the flavour will not be the same. The best bet is to retain some of the original sweetness by either using a lower attenuating yeast or stopping the fermentation early.

In my cider experiments some evidence of mellowing can be tasted after 3 or 4 weeks but 6 months or more seems to be the timeframe required to make a drinkable cider from champagne yeast.

I was also worried about my cider getting too dry so I used a sachet of the Coles Tandaco yeast I had leftover from the JAOM.


6 x 2ltr bottles Aldi Apples Juice

6 x 2ltr bottles of Aldi Apple and Mango Juice

3 Cinnamon Sticks

2 Star Annise

1 Kg white sugar

5g Tataric Acid

5g Citric Acid

24g Vinters Harvest Wine Nutrient

Yeast (Coles Tandaco 7g)

OG was 1060

Its fermenting well and smells nice but im not really sure if the Mango Juice was a good idea or not.

Im hoping it will have a sweeter finish from the combination used above.

Not really sure if this is technically a cider but looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Any comments welcome as im new to fermenting. :unsure:

 

[Plaz]

I was also worried about my cider getting too dry so I used a sachet of the Coles Tandaco yeast I had leftover from the JAOM.


6 x 2ltr bottles Aldi Apples Juice

6 x 2ltr bottles of Aldi Apple and Mango Juice

3 Cinnamon Sticks

2 Star Annise

1 Kg white sugar

5g Tataric Acid

5g Citric Acid

24g Vinters Harvest Wine Nutrient

Yeast (Coles Tandaco 7g)

OG was 1060

Its fermenting well and smells nice but im not really sure if the Mango Juice was a good idea or not.

Im hoping it will have a sweeter finish from the combination used above.

Not really sure if this is technically a cider but looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Any comments welcome as im new to fermenting. :unsure:

Just an update on this.

My SG is slightly under 1.000 today and the fermenting looks to have slowed right down.

I'm going to rack off from the 1.5cm of Lees. Into a 23ltr glass Carboy with the cinnamon and star annise transferred over. Ill top up with apple juice if needed. Then fit an airlock.

I am surprised at the fermentation progress as this is now only 4 days. With the Tandaco Yeast I had thought the SG would not go this low either.

The ferment temp was mostly 27 - 28 degrees C throughout, so a little higher than I usually see recommended on these forums. My Swamp cooler set up kept this fairly constant.

To my pallet this tastes like a good brew with mango flavour comming through strong. Its drier than I had hoped but so far not too dry. No yeasty or sulphor taste either so im happy.

Im assuming that the above means the alcohol content is around eight percent but im still a little confused by all the jargon or how to determine this accurately so would appreciate any feedback. .

Will post a progress report in a few weeks.

 

[bum]

There's a few different ways to work out alc. I think the most common (easiest) is (OG - FG)/7.46. I understand that this is not the most accurate method but it is supposed to be close enough. OG/FG are expressed without the decimal point, so for your cider it might be:

(1060 - 0999)/7.46 = 9.38

Add 0.5% if you're bottle carbing and you've got yourself a genuine headbanger. And having fermented in 4 days, there's a good chance you might get a few headaches as well.