James Squire Amber Ale Clone

[gavpk]

Hi all,
Im planning for my forth batch now and found this,

A blend of pale, crystal and carapils malts produces a distinctive coppery colour, rich malt
sweetness and persistent creamy head. The flavour is very ale-like with a lingering slightly
nutty finish. Willamette hops are added late in the kettle boil for a refreshing citrus
(almost grapefruit) hop character. (description copied from malt shovel website)

Its JAMES SQUIRE AMBER ALE and ive been drinking a fair bit of it lately
(waiting for the others to become drinkable) could someone please help me create
a rough recipe from this? Ive got a can of APA, 500g of dried crystal malt (grain form),
heaps of LDME, dextrose, BE1 and US56 yeast in stock and im going down the HBS on Thursday
to get some more stuff , I think this is the beer for me and hope (after a few batchs and
some good pointers) I can end up with a good clone.

cheers :beer:

Gav

 

[gavpk]

I went down the brew shop after work and got some carapils malt, Willamette hops and safale
S04 yeast (the bloke at the shop said it would be better than US-56 for this type of beer), anyways this is what i came up with, based on what ive read

1 can of coopers APA
250g carapils malt
250g crystal malt
600g LDME
400g BE #1
25g Willamette hops
Safale S04

Steep the carapils and crystal malt in half the can of goo at 60oC for 20 mins, boil the Willamette
for 30 mins in 1 litre of water, throw all this, plus the rest in the fermenter and fill to 23 litres,
cool, then pitch yeast.
would this come anywhere close to a JS amber ale? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

cheers :beer:

Gav

 

[hewy]

Firstly I would like to say that I am no expert, but I am not sure if 250g of crystal would be too much?

It might make the beer too dark. Maybe think about cutting back to 100g...

Let me know how it turns out in any case as I am a big fan of JS amber ale.

 

[T.D.]

Steep the carapils

I'm pretty sure you can't steep carapils - it needs to be mashed.

 

[Stuster]

I agree that you need to mash the carapils. If this is your first time to use grains, I'd just stick with the crystal for now. I don't think that 250g will be too much. I'd steep the crystal in 1L of 60-70C water for 30 minutes (no need for the goop). Then rinse it with another litre of water. Boil up the wort you now have (the crystal water, but with no grains in it) and once it's boiling add half the Willamette. After 20 minutes add the LDME, 5 more minutes add the rest of the hops, boil for 5 more minutes. Turn it off and into the fermenter with the kit and the BE#1 and top it up. S04 is a fine yeast for this style.

(PS - it's been ages since I did anything but AG, but this is seems good by my faulty memory. )

 

[T.D.]

I agree with Stuster re sticking to just the Crystal for now, but if you want another grain type other than the crystal, try 50-100g of Amber malt. I think this is a really important ingredient in a JSAA recipe.

Can anybody shed any light on whether Amber Malt needs to be mashed??? Like Stu its been many years since I ever steeped grain, but from memory it may need to be mashed...

Ah, just found this which explains it all fairly well. Looks like Amber (or Biscuit as they call it) needs to be mashed. Oh well, scrap that idea!! :lol:

 

[gavpk]

I agree with Stuster re sticking to just the Crystal for now, but if you want another grain type other than the crystal, try 50-100g of Amber malt. I think this is a really important ingredient in a JSAA recipe.

Can anybody shed any light on whether Amber Malt needs to be mashed??? Like Stu its been many years since I ever steeped grain, but from memory it may need to be mashed...

Ah, just found this which explains it all fairly well. Looks like Amber (or Biscuit as they call it) needs to be mashed. Oh well, scrap that idea!! :lol:

hi,
is that coopers liquid amber malt, or can i buy it in dry grain form?and mashing the carapils, i take it this is only for AG or can it be used with KK

cheers :beer:

Gav

 

[Ross]

Carapils does NOT need mashing.

Whether that recipe will come out anything like JS amber, i'd be surprised, but report back & let us know.

cheers Ross

 

[Stuster]

That's interesting, Ross. Just a myth then? John Palmer certainly says it does need to be mashed, but the cara bit suggests crystal.

 

[T.D.]

hi,
is that coopers liquid amber malt, or can i buy it in dry grain form?and mashing the carapils, i take it this is only for AG or can it be used with KK

cheers :beer:

Gav

The "Amber Malt" I referred to is a grain type. Its not just amber-coloured extract. Gives a nice biscuity, even lightly roasted flavour to the beer, which I think is a distinguishing characteristic in JS Amber Ale.

You don't need to be an AG brewer to do a small mash - basically it becomes a partial mash. I think its probably not worth trying to mash at this stage though, steeping is probably a good bet though. Once you have steeping down you can start fooling around with mashing grains. All the necessary info is found in the online book I referred to above: http://www.howtobrew.com/intro.html

 

[T.D.]

Carapils does NOT need mashing.

How so Ross? This is from How to Brew...

Dextrin Malt 3 L Also known as American Carapils, this malt is used sparingly and contributes little color but enhances the mouthfeel and perceived body of the beer. A common amount for a five gallon batch is 1/2 lb. Dextrin malt has no diastatic power. It must be mashed; if steeped it will contribute a lot of unconverted starch and cause starch haze.

 

[Tony]

have a go at this. Dont use the APA kit, it will have all the wrong flavours

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 3.33
Anticipated OG: 1.044 Plato: 11.05
Anticipated EBC: 20.0
Anticipated IBU: 22.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 45 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
90.1 3.00 kg. Coopers LME - Light Australia 1.038 7
9.0 0.30 kg. TF Crystal UK 1.034 140
0.9 0.03 kg. TF Chocolate Malt UK 1.033 900

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
40.00 g. Willamette Pellet 4.30 20.1 45 min.
20.00 g. Willamette Pellet 4.30 2.2 5 min.


Yeast
-----

US-56 or SO-4



The night before, heat 1 liter of water to about 70 deg in a small pot and remove from the heat. Add in your cracked crystal (300g) and 30g of cracked chocolate malt and stir in. the chocolate isnt stated on the website but it lends a fantastic nutty complexity and amber colour without having tio use a ton of crystal.
Put the lid on and forget about it for 12 to 24 hours

the next day get 2 cans of coopers un hopped liquid malt extract.

disolve 1 can in about 10 to 12 liters in a big 18 odd liter pot ($20 from Woolworths)

bring it to the boil and add the first 40g of hops.

boil them for 40 minuites then add the remaining 20g of hops.

Boil these for for 5 minuites then remove the lot from the heat.

strain the liquid from the little pot with your crystal ect in it into the big pot with the hops, just use a fine kitchen strainer to do this and dont go rinsing it with boiling water to get more colour from it, all you will get is tannins......... yuck.

Now disolve the other tin of coopers liquid extract in the big pot and cool it down in the laundry sink, bath tub, where ever.

tip it in the firmenter when cool strain out the hops if you can, and top it up with cold water to 23 liters.

off you go.

this will be a far better beer than one made with a kit as a base.

trust me.

cheers

 

[Ross]

How so Ross? This is from How to Brew...

Dextrin Malt 3 L Also known as American Carapils, this malt is used sparingly and contributes little color but enhances the mouthfeel and perceived body of the beer. A common amount for a five gallon batch is 1/2 lb. Dextrin malt has no diastatic power. It must be mashed; if steeped it will contribute a lot of unconverted starch and cause starch haze.

There is an Americam malster (briess) that states their carapils needs mashing, but i can promise you that the weyermanns carapils available in this country does not need mashing.
to quote Wes Smith who used to be the importer...
"Carapils, or just plain dextrin malt is a crystal malt that has been lightly kilned but not roasted to the point of caramelisation. It is used to add both body and head retention to lighter coloured beers - and especially low acohol beers. It can be steeped or mashed just the same as any other crystal or roasted malt."

cheers Ross

 

[T.D.]

There is an Americam malster (briess) that states their carapils needs mashing, but i can promise you that the weyermanns carapils available in this country does not need mashing.
to quote Wes Smith who used to be the importer...
"Carapils, or just plain dextrin malt is a crystal malt that has been lightly kilned but not roasted to the point of caramelisation. It is used to add both body and head retention to lighter coloured beers - and especially low acohol beers. It can be steeped or mashed just the same as any other crystal or roasted malt."

cheers Ross

Interesting. Certainly turns all advice I have seen on its head! Have you or anybody you know tried steeping it?

 

[Ross]

Interesting. Certainly turns all advice I have seen on its head! Have you or anybody you know tried steeping it?

Yes & works fine .

I can sense you doubt me .....It's been discused a few times before, if you do a search....

 

[T.D.]

Yes & works fine .

I can sense you doubt me .....It's been discused a few times before, if you do a search....

Nah, not doubting you, just quite a revelation that's all! Not steeping carapils has been a staple rule for as long as I can remember, so just wanted to know if the theory had been tested!

 

[gavpk]

have a go at this. Dont use the APA kit, it will have all the wrong flavours

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 3.33
Anticipated OG: 1.044 Plato: 11.05
Anticipated EBC: 20.0
Anticipated IBU: 22.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 45 Minutes
Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
90.1 3.00 kg. Coopers LME - Light Australia 1.038 7
9.0 0.30 kg. TF Crystal UK 1.034 140
0.9 0.03 kg. TF Chocolate Malt UK 1.033 900

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.
Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
40.00 g. Willamette Pellet 4.30 20.1 45 min.
20.00 g. Willamette Pellet 4.30 2.2 5 min.
Yeast
-----

US-56 or SO-4
The night before, heat 1 liter of water to about 70 deg in a small pot and remove from the heat. Add in your cracked crystal (300g) and 30g of cracked chocolate malt and stir in. the chocolate isnt stated on the website but it lends a fantastic nutty complexity and amber colour without having tio use a ton of crystal.
Put the lid on and forget about it for 12 to 24 hours

the next day get 2 cans of coopers un hopped liquid malt extract.

disolve 1 can in about 10 to 12 liters in a big 18 odd liter pot ($20 from Woolworths)

bring it to the boil and add the first 40g of hops.

boil them for 40 minuites then add the remaining 20g of hops.

Boil these for for 5 minuites then remove the lot from the heat.

strain the liquid from the little pot with your crystal ect in it into the big pot with the hops, just use a fine kitchen strainer to do this and dont go rinsing it with boiling water to get more colour from it, all you will get is tannins......... yuck.

Now disolve the other tin of coopers liquid extract in the big pot and cool it down in the laundry sink, bath tub, where ever.

tip it in the firmenter when cool strain out the hops if you can, and top it up with cold water to 23 liters.

off you go.

this will be a far better beer than one made with a kit as a base.

trust me.

cheers

Sounds good, thanks for that, does promash have this included or did you create this from your experience?

cheers :beer:

Gav

 

[gavpk]

Whether that recipe will come out anything like JS amber, i'd be surprised, but report back & let us know.

cheers Ross

Ross,
To help with the final recipe Ill use, what would you suggest for a JSAA (keeping in mind that I will take everyones advice and leave mashing alone for now)

cheers :beer:

Gav

 

[Ross]

Ross,
To help with the final recipe Ill use, what would you suggest for a JSAA (keeping in mind that I will take everyones advice and leave mashing alone for now)

cheers :beer:

Gav

No experience on this one, sorry - Tony is a great brewer, so I'd be following his advice
Got to try his "bright ale" clone from a local brewer last week - top drop mate :super:

cheers Ross

 

[gavpk]

No experience on this one, sorry - Tony is a great brewer, so I'd be following his advice
Got to try his "bright ale" clone from a local brewer last week - top drop mate :super:

cheers Ross

will do Ross, thanks anyway.

Gav