It's Nice When It All Works

[Supra-Jim]

So lately I've been getting the ***** cos my efficiency has been up sh*t creek (60-65%), anyway after alot of reading, scouring the interweb and chewing the ear of my LHBS, i approached last nights brew with a new plan. Modification for this brew was:

1. 90min mash (was mashing at 65 deg and haven't done long mash before)
2. Mash out to 78deg (I have done mash outs before, but missed reaching 78 a few times)
3. Uber Slow lautering

The recipe was a double batch of Tony's LCBA clone, and half of it is for a mates 30th (hence the additional concern for making sure everything AOK!). Batch sparge a 42 ltr brew in a 38ltr gatorade mash tun??? Yeah i think we can do that. Well I did, mash out and the additional sparges took the liquid level in the tun right to the lip, but hey anything below the lip is wasted space right???

So cutting a long story short (and thanks to the very slow lautering, a long brew session) the target efficiency was 75% with a starting gravity in the fermenter of 1045, and I managed to get a gravity of 1050!!! Very happy!

At 1.30am this morning i went to bed a very happy man.

Cheers SJ

 

[Fents]

nice one SJ. its a good feeling when it all come together eh?

one thing i learnt with batch sparging too is try and get equal run off's. i.e i use 17KG grain and mash in with 55Litres of water (55-17 = 38 (grain absobrtion) - 3 mash tun dead space = 35) gives me 35 litres into the kettle. i then sparge with another 33 litres and then another 33 litres to give me a pre boil of 101Litres. has helped put me over the 75% mark for a while now.

 

[raven19]

Well I did, mash out and the additional sparges took the liquid level in the tun right to the lip, but hey anything below the lip is wasted space right???

Yes, unless you have a 50L Esky with a weir at the hinge built in! Doh!

Nice work on improving the efficiency, makes for a late night it would seem...

 

[therook]

So lately I've been getting the ***** cos my efficiency has been up sh*t creek (60-65%), anyway after alot of reading, scouring the interweb and chewing the ear of my LHBS, i approached last nights brew with a new plan. Modification for this brew was:

1. 90min mash (was mashing at 65 deg and haven't done long mash before)
2. Mash out to 78deg (I have done mash outs before, but missed reaching 78 a few times)
3. Uber Slow lautering

The recipe was a double batch of Tony's LCBA clone, and half of it is for a mates 30th (hence the additional concern for making sure everything AOK!). Batch sparge a 42 ltr brew in a 38ltr gatorade mash tun??? Yeah i think we can do that. Well I did, mash out and the additional sparges took the liquid level in the tun right to the lip, but hey anything below the lip is wasted space right???

So cutting a long story short (and thanks to the very slow lautering, a long brew session) the target efficiency was 75% with a starting gravity in the fermenter of 1045, and I managed to get a gravity of 1050!!! Very happy!

At 1.30am this morning i went to bed a very happy man.

Cheers SJ

Great news there SJ

I hope you adjusted your hop schedule for 75%

Rook

 

[chappo1970]

Well done SJ! :beer:

Yeah I had simular drama's earlier on but now only really do 90mins mashing and sloooooooooooooow sparges. Certainly the HERMS helped as well getting an average now of 85-90%. Which was a PITA to start with as I had to constantly re-adjust the wort to hit target OG's. But now the brewery has some consistancy I have been able to dial that into my recipes.

Gotta agree though you don't mind a long slog evening of brewing when it all pulls together.

Hope the next is the same for ya SJ. :icon_cheers:

....my efficiency has been up sh*t creek (60-65%)...

Wow, you really do suck at brewing


Chap Chap

 

[Supra-Jim]

Thanks guys, yeah the recipe/hop schedule was based around 75%, and when i noticed the pre-boil was a little higher than expected, good old Beersmith did the thinking/recipe tweaks for me.

Cheers SJ

 

[Supra-Jim]

Gotta agree though you don't mind a long slog evening of brewing when it all pulls together.

Yeah, fortunately I just installed a pool table into the brewery, so essentially it was long boozy night playing pool, so i can't complain too much! :icon_cheers:

Wow, you really do suck at brewing


Chap Chap

Yeah, but no-one can wield a can-opener and a bag of sugaz like you do big guy!! (Sorry, what's that, you put in 3 bags of sugaz coz you and your mates like it really strong????) :icon_drunk:

Cheers SJ

 

[reviled]

Probably not the case here, but whenever my efficiency is off where I am normally I allways look at the scales first, and then think how drunk was I when I weighed out the grain? :unsure: Cos a couple of times ive milled a kilo more or less without realising then thinking WTF?? when my figures are all whack...

But the scales is a biggie, they can lose up to 25% accuracy when the battery starts running low...

 

[Supra-Jim]

I'm relying on the LHBS here Reviled, as I don't have a mill, so at the moment the crush is also controlled by the LHBS.

A mill is next on the cards, so I'll probably start screwing up the efficiency all over again once I get that up and running

Cheers SJ

 

[reviled]

I'm relying on the LHBS here Reviled, as I don't have a mill, so at the moment the crush is also controlled by the LHBS.

A mill is next on the cards, so I'll probably start screwing up the efficiency all over again once I get that up and running

Cheers SJ

Yeah I found consistency was really hard to achieve when I was getting my grian weighed and milled by the LHBS...

You wont regret getting a mill, I got a Monster for about $260 NZD to my door a few months ago and my brewing has thanked me for it, its great being able to walk downstairs when you feel like it, weigh up, mill, then brew B)

 

[Fourstar]

one thing i learnt with batch sparging too is try and get equal run off's.

This is a good point for batch sparging but its been found it is not very detrimental.
See this note: http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?t...n_to_each_other
A very good reference too: http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?t...arging_Analysis

Good work on getting the efficiency up. Dont try and go too high, anything in the 70's is perfect. if you are getting 90's for your brewhouse, i'd look at trying to lower your efficiency as you can end up with tannin extraction and its also believed to be a 'lower quality wort' (as you are sucking every last bit out of the malt).

Cheers.

 

[warra48]

Good news to see you've nailed a brew as you planned. Hope it tastes and looks as good as it promises to be.

It's nice as a brewer to consistently hit reliable efficiency targets. It makes recipe design much easier, and means you don't need to fiddle your IBU levels if you miss your target.

I batch sparge, and have also found that a slow slow run-off is best.

 

[Fents]

This is a good point for batch sparging but its been found it is not very detrimental.
See this note: http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?t...n_to_each_other
A very good reference too: http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?t...arging_Analysis

Cheers.

helped me get from 65-68% to 75% and it is the only thing i changed.

 

[chappo1970]

Yeah, but no-one can wield a can-opener and a bag of sugaz like you do big guy!! (Sorry, what's that, you put in 3 bags of sugaz coz you and your mates like it really strong????)

Cheers SJ

:lol:

"King" of the can openers

Buggar the sugaz SJ... WICE is the new white adjunct! :lol:

 

[Fourstar]

helped me get from 65-68% to 75% and it is the only thing i changed.

Interesting to know! I adjusted mine early in the piece when i read about it and found i got only a couple of points extra. I noticed my eff for batch sparging increase only after doing a slower sparge and even further again after water adjustments. The past 6-8 batches have been 77% up from 68%. I think i might start adjusting my recipes to suit but im scared its going to drop back to 68% again and be under in my OG estimation by 9%. :lol:

I'd say(just a guess) the biggest thing for batch sparging is to mix the arse out of the grain once your mashout/sparge water is in to knock as much sugar fro the grain as possible. Get it all into solution rather than having to draw majority of it off the grainbed.

Just out of interest Fents, do you take a reading at the end of sparging or just your total brewhouse at the end of boil? Do you know if you are sparging more volume to your kettle than what you used to?

Its interesting in that link they say that lauter efficiency (to the boil kettle) only increases by up to 7% for any subsequent sparges past the initial 1st batch (assuming you sparged 50% of the preboil volume figure.) Sounds like a nice way to knock out a barleywine or two, reserve the grain and sparge again for a subsequent 'baby' parti-gyle beer.

Cheers!

 

[Fents]

Just out of interest Fents, do you take a reading at the end of sparging or just your total brewhouse at the end of boil? Do you know if you are sparging more volume to your kettle than what you used to?

yep always take a pre boil readin (after all sparge is complete and its coming to the boil) on my SG refrac so i can adjust in beersmith before the boil if i need to. i dont take a reading per say to see what my last sparge is at i.e only sparge to 1008 i sparge to get my volume.

second part of question im not too sure...probably am tho....as if i look in my beesmith recipes all my recipes vary in batch sizes but for my last few i have settled on the 35+33+33 method. so yea probaly more volume but also using more grain too.

 

[Fourstar]

second part of question im not too sure...probably am tho....

If you are boiling down more from your sparge volume to the same old final volume, you will increase your efficiency. You may be gaining a few points there too bud.

 

[Ross]

Dont try and go too high, anything in the 70's is perfect. if you are getting 90's for your brewhouse, i'd look at trying to lower your efficiency as you can end up with tannin extraction and its also believed to be a 'lower quality wort' (as you are sucking every last bit out of the malt).

Cheers.

Not quite correct - Supra-jim is batch sparging & getting your efficiency up into the 90's will not end up with tannin extraction.
My effciencys vary from 70's for high gravitybeers up to 90's for low gravitys.

cheers Ross

 

[Fourstar]

getting your efficiency up into the 90's will not end up with tannin extraction.

Hey Ross,

The higher you extract the higher the pH rises, if the pH rises well above 6, your chances of pH extraction increases. Im not saying you WILL extract tannins, it just increases your chances. I'd prefer to be slightly under utilising (70-80%) my malt anway as its believed that lower efficiency worts are of a higher quality than 'oversparged' ones.

To counteract the pH issue you would probabaly want to acidify your sparge water. I know its less lilkly for us on the east coast with low carbonate water, but its still possible as our base water in melbourne with a 100% pils grist will get you a mash pH of around 5.6~ (according to the nomograph). I know its 'armwaving' and not 100% accurate, but its beter than nothing.

See this link for your reading Ross, 4th paragraph onwards, (the whole page is quite interesting actually): http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?t...tion_of_Tannins

Cheers!

 

[Screwtop]

Hey Ross,

The higher you extract the higher the pH rises, if the pH rises well above 6, your chances of pH extraction increases.

Thought you would have known that Ross :lol: :lol:

Funny.....ROTHLMGU

Screwy