Is It Hard To Brew An Ag Lager

[bvanlathum]

Is it possible to brew a lager with the Batch sparge method of mashing? If so, would like to know the ins and outs.

 

[geoffi]

Is it possible to brew a lager with the Batch sparge method of mashing? If so, would like to know the ins and outs.

Ins and outs?

Water goes in...wort comes out...

You can brew an AG lager exactly as you would an ale, with a simple infusion mash and whatever type of sparge suits you. Batch sparge works perfectly well.

 

[goatherder]

Yep, it is absolutely possible. Many do it and do it well. The method of sparging has little to do with it. I like batch sparging because it was simpler for me to learn and that's the way I do things now.

What makes a lager challenging is that they are often pale and delicate in flavour, leaving no room for any flaws to hide. Scrupulous sanitation, a big pitch of yeast and a long cold ferment are three key ingredients in a decent lager. Give the wort a good hard boil to help drive off DMS (which can be found in pilsner malt) and use good quality fresh hops.

 

[geoffi]

Second the boil. 90 minutes to be safe for pilsener malts is my opinion.

 

[braufrau]

Does the lagering temperature have to be constant ... or just cold?

 

[Adamt]

Constant temperature doesnt really matter, colder the better as more solids come out of solution. Most important thing is to keep it still so sedimentation can happen, and rack gently off the sediment.

 

[matti]

Does the lagering temperature have to be constant ... or just cold?

Pitch at 16 degrees or there about then bring to 9-12 degrees.

Constant temperatures is always better!

Batch sparge? No worries. Mash at 63 and ensure you got the right grain bill/conditions to ensure good conversion.

matti

 

[tim_mortensen]

I find the best results are to be had by pitching cold, into wort at 7C, then letting the wort warm up slowly to about 10C over a few days, then holding it constant there.

That way you get a very clean lager with no fermentation flaws.

As for lagering, keeping it between -1 to 1C is ideal, though if it fluctuates a bit up to fridge temps it doesn't seem to cause any harm.

Tim

 

[braufrau]

I find the best results are to be had by pitching cold, into wort at 7C, then letting the wort warm up slowly to about 10C over a few days, then holding it constant there.

That way you get a very clean lager with no fermentation flaws.

As for lagering, keeping it between -1 to 1C is ideal, though if it fluctuates a bit up to fridge temps it doesn't seem to cause any harm.

Tim

Ummm ... how about putting it in the chook yard on the south side of the house in winter? :unsure:

 

[tangent]

Mash at 63 and ensure you got the right grain bill/conditions to ensure good conversion.

???

 

[crozdog]

I've made some great AG lagers with single temp infusion mashing and batch sparging using both joe white & weyyerman malt. Give it a go as long as you can control your fermentation temp - ow wait till winter. As mentioned plenty of yeast is essential.

Matti - I prefer to mash lagers at 65-66 to get more of that yummy malty goodness coming through. 63 would be too dry IMHO.

 

[Trough Lolly]

Is it possible to brew a lager with the Batch sparge method of mashing? If so, would like to know the ins and outs.

G'day Bridgee - there are three keys to making a good lager...Fresh Ingredients, Patience and Temperature Control.

For more info and pics on making a lager with batch sparge: Click on this link...

Cheers,
TL

 

[mikem108]

The brewing bit is easy, its the fermentation that counts in this style, Trough Lolly summed it up

 

[axl]

Sparging, Mashing same as ales. A bit cooler mashing temp for lagers though IMO for a drier finish.
The key difference here is the yeast strain. Lager or Ale?? Obviously choose a lager yeast for a lager and an ale yeast for an ale, easy!.
I prefer the dried lager yeasts as opposed to the liquid. Especially the "brew Cellar European Lager". The main reason is it is a clean, fast fermenting yeast with no residual sulphury flavour. It will also ferment at minimal temps ie, 10-12 degrees and you will get good consistant low FG's with no flavour flaws.
IMO you should forget the liquid lager yeasts as they are too temperamental. Go the dried ones.
Yeast and temp are the keys to a good lager and that's it.

 

[tangent]

or mash at 65-66C and don't use any crystal/cara. Amazing how many people mash low for a dry finish but religiously use a freakin' kilo of carapils or something crazy.
my best lagers have been 100% pils and 60minute bittering hops only.
it's all about the fridge!

 

[goatherder]

repeat after me:

I don't need carapils, I don't need carapils, I don't need carapils...

 

[Gough]

Sparging, Mashing same as ales. A bit cooler mashing temp for lagers though IMO for a drier finish.
The key difference here is the yeast strain. Lager or Ale?? Obviously choose a lager yeast for a lager and an ale yeast for an ale, easy!.
I prefer the dried lager yeasts as opposed to the liquid. Especially the "brew Cellar European Lager". The main reason is it is a clean, fast fermenting yeast with no residual sulphury flavour. It will also ferment at minimal temps ie, 10-12 degrees and you will get good consistant low FG's with no flavour flaws.
IMO you should forget the liquid lager yeasts as they are too temperamental. Go the dried ones.
Yeast and temp are the keys to a good lager and that's it.

Just for a different point of view

Liquid lager yeasts are great. I can't see how they are any more temperamental than dried yeasts?? Sulphury aromas during fermentation are a very common part of many lager ferments - conditioning/lagering sorts them out and leaves the beer with the classic 'lager' profile. Don't let the sulphur worry you! Each to their own etc, but I'm much more confident pitching a good liquid slurry/starter into a cold ferment than a dried yeast.

Best of luck with it,

Shawn.

 

[Trough Lolly]

Just for a different point of view

Liquid lager yeasts are great. I can't see how they are any more temperamental than dried yeasts?? Sulphury aromas during fermentation are a very common part of many lager ferments - conditioning/lagering sorts them out and leaves the beer with the classic 'lager' profile. Don't let the sulphur worry you! Each to their own etc, but I'm much more confident pitching a good liquid slurry/starter into a cold ferment than a dried yeast.

Best of luck with it,

Shawn.

Another vote here for liquid lager yeast. Sure, you can make a great lagers with S-189 or W34/70 etc, but if you want to get closer to the real thing, a starter made from healthy, viable Budvar yeast (Wyeast 2000), Urquell (Wyeast 2001) or California Common (Wyeast2112) and their white labs cousins etc is the way to go - you can't make a great lager if you're in a rush...

...and as a side note, I've not used Carapils for more than 2 years!

Cheers,
TL

 

[SJW]

repeat after me:

I don't need carapils, I don't need carapils, I don't need carapils...

I agree. I have never found a need to use this for head retention or as a crystal.
Another one for the chinese whispers I reckon!

Steve

 

[bconnery]

Like they all said.
Lagers are a lot less scarey than all the technical info out there would have you believe.
Temperature during fermentation is the key.
I don't even properly lager mine any more.

Grain bill as per the style of lager you are after. My current favourite is a 95% pils, 5% Munich grain bill (I have been using carapils, but just to use it up, honest )
Hops, again for style or preference. I've been going a 60 minute and flavour addition @15/20, but no later than 15.
Yeast, again for preference.
I know excellent lager brewers who swear by liquid.
I know excellent lager brewers who sweat by dry.
I like s189 myself, but as a relative newcomer to successful lagers I don't have a wide sample set...

Pitch higher, 17C and drop, or else pitch at your temp. This is what has worked for me but I don't claim it is the best or only way...
Pitch enough yeast.
Keep the temperature down in the best range for your yeast.
Do a diacetyl rest if you prefer or feel the need.

So mine are now simple.
Pitch at around 12C. Ferment for just under 2 weeks, checking gravity.
Drop down a little colder for a day or two.
Rack to keg.
Carbonate and leave for a week.
They generally need another week, but not always.
This will also vary on style, gravity etc. but for my current german pilsner / munich helles variants it is working just fine...

My german pilsner at christmas was totally gone in a shade under 5 weeks from brewday.