Is It Hard To Brew An Ag Lager

[NeilArge]

I was happy with this one:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=286

Alternatively a grain bill of 95% Pils and 5% Melanoiden with a single infusion mash at 64-65C comes out pretty good.

Definately use a liquid yeast as well, WL 833 is to die for in this style. :icon_drunk:

C&B
TDA

Ta very much TDA. I have seen your recipe and, in fact, posed a question to you about it. To wit, did you try, or would you recommend a step mash for this or isn't it worth the hassle? I'll definitely try the liquid yeast.

Cheers

ToG

 

[NeilArge]

Ta bconnery. Looks excellent.

Cheers

ToG

Yes and yes.
I've no doubt it would be alright but you'd be far better of going with a classic german noble hop, or one of the new varieties of german hop.
I've got the following recipe, it isn't 100% Helles, not strict to style I don't believe but it is close, and very nice. Take out the Vienna to be more true for a start...
There's a picture of it recently in the what's in the glass thread...

Batch Size: 21.00 L
Boil Size: 32.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.047 SG
Estimated Color: 11.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 34.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 70 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1800.00 gm Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 40.00 %
1800.00 gm Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.9 EBC) Grain 40.00 %
900.00 gm Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 20.00 %
25.00 gm Smaragd [8.00 %] (40 min) Hops 22.8 IBU
30.00 gm Smaragd [8.00 %] (10 min) Hops 11.3 IBU
1 Pkgs SafLager West European Lager (DCL Yeast #SYeast-Lager 34/70)

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

Ta very much TDA. I have seen your recipe and, in fact, posed a question to you about it. To wit, did you try, or would you recommend a step mash for this or isn't it worth the hassle? I'll definitely try the liquid yeast.

Cheers

ToG

ToG,

I would try a single infusion first. I had no probs with Weyermann Pils malt, well modified so really I don't see the need. I lager the Helles beers for 6 weeks and they always come up with good clarity.
Others may think differently.

C&B
TDA

 

[agraham]

For my Helles i use the following:

4.5 KG Weyermann Pils
300G Weyermann Munich I
100G Weyermann Melanoidin

Single infusion @ 64 degrees, batch sparge.

20 IBU Hallertau

Wyeast 2308 @ 8 degrees.

Takes time but its worth it. Remember to pitch cold and you will get the right flavour profile.

With careful sanitation you can repitch another brew right on top of this and you will find that attenuation will improve and lag time will decrease.

Let it sit in the keg for a month force carbonated and the malt flavours will mellow together and be nice and yummy.

 

[NeilArge]

For my Helles i use the following:

4.5 KG Weyermann Pils
300G Weyermann Munich I
100G Weyermann Melanoidin

Single infusion @ 64 degrees, batch sparge.

20 IBU Hallertau

Wyeast 2308 @ 8 degrees.

Takes time but its worth it. Remember to pitch cold and you will get the right flavour profile.

With careful sanitation you can repitch another brew right on top of this and you will find that attenuation will improve and lag time will decrease.

Let it sit in the keg for a month force carbonated and the malt flavours will mellow together and be nice and yummy.

Thanks for excellent advice, TDA and AG. I can't wait to give both a go.

Cheers and ta again

ToG

 

[NeilArge]

AG

Just a few questions: What size batch was this brew? Looks like a lot of malt for a 21l batch?
I'm not into kegging as yet but still with the trusty rusty brown long-necks - I assume that if it sits in the bottle for long enough after lagering the effect (taste) will be similar? Also, I've been seeing quote a few postings talking about the importance (or otherwise) of rests for DMS. I'm not 100% what this is about, but is it relevant to brewing a helles?

Cheers

ToG

For my Helles i use the following:

4.5 KG Weyermann Pils
300G Weyermann Munich I
100G Weyermann Melanoidin

Single infusion @ 64 degrees, batch sparge.

20 IBU Hallertau

Wyeast 2308 @ 8 degrees.

Takes time but its worth it. Remember to pitch cold and you will get the right flavour profile.

With careful sanitation you can repitch another brew right on top of this and you will find that attenuation will improve and lag time will decrease.

Let it sit in the keg for a month force carbonated and the malt flavours will mellow together and be nice and yummy.

 

[agraham]

My recipe does enough for 1 keg, 19l or so. You can drop the Pils malt down to 3.8-4kg if you want lower alcohol content.

90 min boil is also recommended to keep away dms.

As for bottling you will be fine if you let the stand room temp for 2 or so weeks, then lager in the fridge for a month.

 

[Hutch]

AG

Just a few questions: What size batch was this brew? Looks like a lot of malt for a 21l batch?
I'm not into kegging as yet but still with the trusty rusty brown long-necks - I assume that if it sits in the bottle for long enough after lagering the effect (taste) will be similar? Also, I've been seeing quote a few postings talking about the importance (or otherwise) of rests for DMS. I'm not 100% what this is about, but is it relevant to brewing a helles?

Cheers

ToG

5kg grain for 21Ltrs seems perfectly normal to me (in case you're mistaking this recipe for malt extract ).

The rest is often required for Diacetyl, not DMS. Diacetyl is created in varying amounts by different lager yeasts, and has a butterscotch flavour often not welcome in many beer styles. DMS (Dimethyl Sulfide) is driven off during the boil, and has a cooked vegitable (corn, cabbage) smell (apparently).

 

[NeilArge]

Dear AG and Hutch

Always best to think first, count with fingers and toes, before typing.... :unsure:
Thanks to both of you. Of course, it looks right... I'm going to have a crack at your recipe, AG, just because I'd like to get this as close to type as possible (if that's right). I'll have a go at other versions after that.

Thanks again

ToG

My recipe does enough for 1 keg, 19l or so. You can drop the Pils malt down to 3.8-4kg if you want lower alcohol content.

90 min boil is also recommended to keep away dms.

As for bottling you will be fine if you let the stand room temp for 2 or so weeks, then lager in the fridge for a month.

 

[browndog]

Hi Folks,
A lager newbie here with a lager newbie question, all the recipes seem to have pilsener as the base malt. Is it possible to use ale malt in a lager?

cheers

Browndog

 

[bconnery]

Browndog, this is brewing.
Anything is possible!

That aside. The answer is still yes.
Pilsner malt may be a better choice, particularly for lighter lagers, but ale malt can still be used.
Still, you could always just order enough for a batch to try out the difference if you don't want to dive in for a bag...

 

[browndog]

Browndog, this is brewing.
Anything is possible!

That aside. The answer is still yes.
Pilsner malt may be a better choice, particularly for lighter lagers, but ale malt can still be used.
Still, you could always just order enough for a batch to try out the difference if you don't want to dive in for a bag...

Thanks for the reply Ben, I thought the malt may have been modified differently or some such.

cheers

Browndog

 

[bconnery]

Thanks for the reply Ben, I thought the malt may have been modified differently or some such.

cheers

Browndog

I think it has, although I'm not sure, but that is still no reason why you can't go for it...
Pilsner or lager malt is generally lighter in colour and so is easier to get the desired colour and I believe many have a higher diastatic power but don't take that as gospel...

 

[NeilArge]

There's almost certainly a thread about here dealing directly with liquid vs. dried yeast for lager brewing but I can't find it readily. Anyway, due to the expense of liquid yeast and the extra costs of getting them up here in rural NSW it's hard to justify their use. I know that you can culture a number of starters out of them but 'she who must be obeyed' isn't rapt with the idea of the fridge being filled up with lots of brown bottles on a more or less permanent basis. At the moment, I am trying to get a starter up of a saflager yeats I used to make a bohemian pilsener last year, but it is slow. I pitched some malt on the dregs three nights ago and it is just ever so slowly starting to push air through the airlock. I am making a helles later this next week. My question is: would you persist with this starter or just get fresh yeast?

Cheers

ToG

of quote name='agraham' date='Apr 1 2008, 11:34 AM' post='299561']
For my Helles i use the following:

4.5 KG Weyermann Pils
300G Weyermann Munich I
100G Weyermann Melanoidin

Single infusion @ 64 degrees, batch sparge.

20 IBU Hallertau

Wyeast 2308 @ 8 degrees.

Takes time but its worth it. Remember to pitch cold and you will get the right flavour profile.

With careful sanitation you can repitch another brew right on top of this and you will find that attenuation will improve and lag time will decrease.

Let it sit in the keg for a month force carbonated and the malt flavours will mellow together and be nice and yummy.
[/quote]

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

There's almost certainly a thread about here dealing directly with liquid vs. dried yeast for lager brewing but I can't find it readily. Anyway, due to the expense of liquid yeast and the extra costs of getting them up here in rural NSW it's hard to justify their use. I know that you can culture a number of starters out of them but 'she who must be obeyed' isn't rapt with the idea of the fridge being filled up with lots of brown bottles on a more or less permanent basis. At the moment, I am trying to get a starter up of a saflager yeats I used to make a bohemian pilsener last year, but it is slow. I pitched some malt on the dregs three nights ago and it is just ever so slowly starting to push air through the airlock. I am making a helles later this next week. My question is: would you persist with this starter or just get fresh yeast?

Cheers

ToG

of quote name='agraham' date='Apr 1 2008, 11:34 AM' post='299561']
For my Helles i use the following:

4.5 KG Weyermann Pils
300G Weyermann Munich I
100G Weyermann Melanoidin

Single infusion @ 64 degrees, batch sparge.

20 IBU Hallertau

Wyeast 2308 @ 8 degrees.

Takes time but its worth it. Remember to pitch cold and you will get the right flavour profile.

With careful sanitation you can repitch another brew right on top of this and you will find that attenuation will improve and lag time will decrease.

Let it sit in the keg for a month force carbonated and the malt flavours will mellow together and be nice and yummy.

Are you saying you are making this starter up from some slurry of Saflager you kept from last year or that you have cultured this out of a bottle of your Bo Pils?
I would taste the starter first to ensure the yeast is still okay. Personally though if it is an old yeast then go get a freshy if that is easy for you to do.
What temperature do you have your starter at btw?

C&B
TDA

 

[NeilArge]

I made the starter from a bottle of bo pils I made last year, just using the last inch or so left after I'd drunk the rest. I'm not worried now as that starter is going terrifically. Big problem is I can't start brewing now until next weekend as that is when all the stars finally come into alignment (malt all finally turns up). But I have made another starter (same as for #1) and intend pitching both for the Helles. I've been letting the starter go at room temp. (c. 20C). I intend putting both starters in the fridge to get them down to the right pitching temp. Does that sound about right?

BTW, I don't have a fridge but am in the process of making a simple fermentation chiller using chipboard, polystyrene, a little electric fan and thermostat. I got the idea from the ESB website years ago and thought I'd have a go at it (son of fermentation chiller, to give the man his dues and IP!). Has anyone else tried one of these?

Cheers

ToG

Are you saying you are making this starter up from some slurry of Saflager you kept from last year or that you have cultured this out of a bottle of your Bo Pils?
I would taste the starter first to ensure the yeast is still okay. Personally though if it is an old yeast then go get a freshy if that is easy for you to do.
What temperature do you have your starter at btw?

C&B
TDA

 

[NeilArge]

Hi agraham

I have just finished making a helles that is uncannily like your recipe. I just wnated to ask what OG did you get for yours? I ended up with an OG of 1.040 at c. 20C. Does this sound about right, or is my efficiency up to cactus? Looks and smells fantastic though! My second AG I must admit....

Cheers

Neil

For my Helles i use the following:

4.5 KG Weyermann Pils
300G Weyermann Munich I
100G Weyermann Melanoidin

Single infusion @ 64 degrees, batch sparge.

20 IBU Hallertau

Wyeast 2308 @ 8 degrees.

Takes time but its worth it. Remember to pitch cold and you will get the right flavour profile.

With careful sanitation you can repitch another brew right on top of this and you will find that attenuation will improve and lag time will decrease.

Let it sit in the keg for a month force carbonated and the malt flavours will mellow together and be nice and yummy.