Infection In Secondary?

[Canumbler]

sorry to dreg up an old topic ive just noticed the same thing on my current brews and since im kegging would it be worth it to keg and leave the top 2 inches in there or am i better off dumping the 2 batches and starting again. im a little pissed off as it wasnt there 2 days ago when i was going to keg them.

If you were to do that I imagine the infection would grow in the keg.

BUT, a thought, if you did as said, and it still TASTED fine, could you then just pasteurise as you're kegging anyway?
Would be interested to hear the results.

 

[Canumbler]

Slight bit more research and came up with this:

"The growth of Acetobacter in wine can be suppressed through effective sanitation, by complete exclusion of air from wine in storage, and by the use of moderate amounts of sulfur dioxide in the wine as a preservative."

Supposedly it's even used intentionally in some beers to increase the acetic acid content.

Point being, if this IS the infection, and the beer still tastes fine, the act of kegging should completely stop this stuff in its tracks as it requires oxygen.

Guess this is one of the disadvantages of racking, you no longer have a nice thick CO2 layer sitting on top of the beer to prevent this stuff from growing.

 

[dr K]

Point being, if this IS the infection, and the beer still tastes fine, the act of kegging should completely stop this stuff in its tracks as it requires oxygen.

Sorry, nope, will not work...if your wort looks anything like that photo it is stuffed, now its hard to tell, it could even be a pellicle forming from Brett (highly unlikely) either way that stuff is bad shirt.
Lets just say it is acetobacter and acetobacter only...oxygen promotes the growth of acetobacter, excluding additional oxygen will slow the growth but you cannot now purge your vessel and beer of oxygen, besides which the damage will have already been done by the acetobacter, now if you have some lactobacillus in there it does not need oxygen, in fact it retards its growth, if there is some Brett, oxygen may have a small help in its growth but it churns away quite happily without it, pediococcus finds oxygen to be a real style cramper but after the remaining saccharomyces has worked with the acetobacter to chew up the remaining oxygen the ped is going to very happy.
In a word...lawnwaterer....

K

 

[Canumbler]

Sorry, nope, will not work...if your wort looks anything like that photo it is stuffed, now its hard to tell, it could even be a pellicle forming from Brett (highly unlikely) either way that stuff is bad shirt.
Lets just say it is acetobacter and acetobacter only...oxygen promotes the growth of acetobacter, excluding additional oxygen will slow the growth but you cannot now purge your vessel and beer of oxygen, besides which the damage will have already been done by the acetobacter, now if you have some lactobacillus in there it does not need oxygen, in fact it retards its growth, if there is some Brett, oxygen may have a small help in its growth but it churns away quite happily without it, pediococcus finds oxygen to be a real style cramper but after the remaining saccharomyces has worked with the acetobacter to chew up the remaining oxygen the ped is going to very happy.
In a word...lawnwaterer....

K

Fair enough, wise advice, although I tend to think with the aggressive growth most infections have that you're unlikely to get more than one at once?
Also the fact that it didn't start until well into secondary makes it sound like a bacteria that requires oxygen, just saying.
So in regards to my original post, if it still tastes ok would pasteurizing before kegging be an option here?

Just deviating a little in regards to the whole, secondary not having the CO2 layer thing. Being that CO2 is heavier than oxygen and you rack from the bottom(ish) of the fermenter, there should still be a fairly thick layer of CO2 sitting in the bottom of your fermenter once you've finished. So if you were to raise the tube to just above the wort in the secondary, and just above the trub in the primary, theoretically wouldn't this siphon the primary's CO2 layer onto the top of the secondary, helping to reduce the chance of airborne infection?

Also, a quicky, if acetobacter continues to grow when deprived of oxygen, what do the beers that use a little acetobacter growth to increase acetic acid do to stop it?

 

[dr K]

When the oxygen runs out so too does (for our purpose) the acetobacter, excluding oxygen from the keg does not preclude oxygen already in the keg or the wort.
Acetobacter gets very drowsy below 20C but will happily work in a heat wave, dropping the temp of the wort (guess its not beer until you say it is) to sub 10C will allow my mate Brett to happily party on , and he is happy to eat up all those sugars that his cousin Sacch is intolerant to.
Beer souring is complex art, you use the various yeasts and bacteria available in concert, the Belgians do it well, I just keep trying.....one day....

K

 

[///]

I racked off a Belgian Wit and have kept it in secondary for the last 2 weeks or so, and I noticed a white scum ring from the outside of the fermenter.

Oxidated wort there... add anything hot to it??

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Oxidated wort there... add anything hot to it??

I would go with /// on this. Although if you added lots of "raw "material it could just be a natural process.If it tastes like shit flush it.If not give it a chance and see what happens.Could have just discovered the next brew style.
Optimistically GB

 

[///]

I would go with /// on this. Although if you added lots of "raw "material it could just be a natural process.If it tastes like shit flush it.If not give it a chance and see what happens.Could have just discovered the next brew style.
Optimistically GB

I achieved this feat when I first started, was making hop teas and adding it hot to the fermented beer. Only took me 2-3 times to figure it was very bad to do...

Scotty

 

[dr K]

///
If my beer in 2ndary does not have a white ring of confidence can I assume its not oxidised?
If it does do I assume oxidation and discount aerobic acrobats such as acetobacter?
and GB
if I am happy to drink a clearly oxidised beer should I develop a taste for sherry and let it run to wet cardboard?
and then after I have kegged it..best way to clear kegs of acectobacter infestation...

I have learnt the hard way..and don't you worry about that I am still learning (the hard way)..if you are concerned about your beer, throw it out....now where's that keg I need to water the lawn with...

K

 

[barls]

right watering the hops it is. now the only question is how did i get it and is hot caustic enought to get rid of it????

 

[mfdes]

Hey ppls,

I noticed in the original thread from June that the secondary fermenter in the picture was a plastic one. This would explain how acetobacter could get established, as the plastic is quite porous and oxygen permeable, and acetobacter (and many other infectors) needs oxygen.
I'd say it's probably wise to secondary in glass with as little headspace as possible. In fact for ales I'd not secondary at all.
Even for lagers there's been a bit of discussion regarding the usefulness of secondary fermentation. Many people have better results not doing a secondary at all.

MFS.