Infection help.

[Yob]

No, I know they can… just I never have and is a possible source of where something can live and be easily overlooked.

 

[Stinger]

Only thing to add after reading the thread through is to Dry Hop after primary fermentation and hope that any antimicrobial activity that the hops have will assist in preventing infection.

Will only be something small so keep running through your process and you will have a head slap moment at some point and everything will be OK.

 

[Lecterfan]

Firstly - I know this thread might be boring for some readers so I am almost hesitant to keep responding, but I do want to acknowledge the advice people are giving and my ego won't let me just click 'like' because largely there is nothing that I haven't done already (and don't want to give the impression that I just haven't been trying hard enough - 8 going on 9 years has been a good run with nothing this major happening).

I have pulled apart and cleaned my two piece ball valve tap...it had a small amount of blackness in it. It was then boiled in Sod perc mix etc.

I should make clear that this is not ruining every brew...I have had a few good ones come in under the radar (or at least they got kegged before exhibiting any signs of infection i.e. visual, aroma, flavour).

The blue willow jerry has produced good, clean beers. This is why I was so flummoxed (assuming it was the other white bucket fermenters) when a brand new fermenter still had the problem. Brewed in the same place, right next to the blue willow, the only difference is the bigger opening...thus I'm assuming airborne.

But I also have the very pessimistic feeling that all my brews, even the blue willow brews, might end up like that eventuallya nd it's just that I'm catching it early enough to prevent it getting to that stage. But that is a band-aid solution.

Anyway, thanks again for the best wishes and the advice.

 

[bum]

Ease up, fella. No one is going to get up you for looking for ideas.

Shit, what does one do about airborne infections? Move the hot kettle into the most claustrophobic room in the house? Same with the fridge? Learn to love lambics? (I know it's not the same culture but isn't entirely a joke - I mean, what else is there? **** not brewing.)

 

[Edak]

Just read through the entire thread, but didn't see mention of you starsan spraying the tap after a gravity test. This is something I do religiously, I spray the jesus out of the tap after and sometimes even before I take a sample.

 

[Lecterfan]

Yes, that is always done. I take things like that for granted as being a must-do. Cheers for the input though.

This is why I was saying it is quite a bitter pill to swallow to post this type of thread. My cleaning and sanitation regime is thorough, and I was always a little snobby about people getting constant infections. No pride after this fall!

edit - The one thing I was guilty of with one brew was a 1469 explosion that lasted a few days and while I would constantly replace the glad wrap and spray starsan around the area, it was never totally clean from the moussey yeast that had gone everywhere...you know, you f*ck one camel...

 

[glaab]

maybe keg sooner? 2 pks of 05 into 1065 shouldnt take more than 2 weeks.
of course once ferment stops its
far more susceptable [sorry to insult you by stating the obvious
]. maybe try 1 week at 20C then 2-3 days at 23c then keg.
might not really be solving your prob but it might prevent it if that makes sense.
I glad wrap after pitching then don't touch it until I keg and its always done after
10 days[ us05 into 1055-1065ish APAs AIPAs ] at 20C. I don't feel the need to see 3 FGs over 3 days when I know
what FG to expect. anyway, good luck getting it sorted mate
,Cheers

 

[Lecterfan]

^ this also has become my plan. Returning to dry yeasts and multiple packs where I deem necessary should alleviate certain variables. I was originally leaving the beers a bit longer as I had some acetaldehyde problems from presumably kegging too soon, thus not enough yeast left to clean up.

I'm looking at taking a gravity sample at about 10 days, if no obvious flavour or aroma flaws in terms of yeast stress etc then I'll just keg the sucker. That will be a start.

In all of the cases the initial signs of infection are at least a few days after secondary fermentation would be well over...i.e. all beers have appeared to be finished and ok at around 12-14 days. I am certainly guilty of 'I'll keg it tomorrow' or whatever...so perhaps now I need to make myself available to keg as soon as the time is right.

 

[daveHQ]

Richy, if you want to remove a few variables then maybe you could

1, bring full fermenter to my place and ferment here (to eliminate environment)

2, borrow some of my equipment for your next batch (cooling coil maybe?) boiling pot even??

 

[KingKong]

Richy, if you want to remove a few variables then maybe you could
1, bring full fermenter to my place and ferment here (to eliminate environment)
2, borrow some of my equipment for your next batch (cooling coil maybe?) boiling pot even??

I am only speculating, but if this is some type of nasty hard to get rid of infection. I think you would want to try contain it. Swapping gear or bringing gear to your place might spread the infection I would guess?

Cant fault your generosity though. But just one thing to think about. Not saying it will, just thinking there is a risk with a very bad outcome.

 

[Rowy]

You mentioned in your OP and have again mentioned about your 1469 explosion. You also seemed to indicate that you may not have cleaned the heater pad and probe as well as you have other things. Starsan only works if everything else is clean. I may be way off here but every time I've had a yeast explosion I've got an infection. I use glad wrap but doesnt seem to matter. If your 100% that you have cleaned that pad and probe enough then I can't help but if your not then............

Also those Bunnings fermenters don't have an O ring so I reckon that it will be different backing it off a turn as opposed to backing off something with an O ring. As soon as you take a sample in she sucks. No rubber O ring to take up the slack of those uneven surfaces. Also maybe with crashing its sucking in air from inside your fridge with that old 1469 infection still on the pad or probe.

When you got the infections using Gladwrap did you at any time remove the Gladwrap to add, hops, sugar, gelatine or anything for that matter. If you did then we could be getting close to an answer.

Not being critical here Lecter just trying to help as I know how much an infection sucks. I'd hate to see you leave the hobby.

 

[Lecterfan]

Hey Rowy, sorry I didn't see your post and reply earlier! I only stumbled across it as I wanted to make an update, certainly not ignoring you cos I'm a lefty Victorian haha (referring to another thread around here at the moment :icon_cheers....


Anyway - UPDATE -

So far I've had four beers all with a clean bill of health. I cleaned the buggery out of everything...boiled a home made pbw mix in the keggle and ran it through all my gear.

All beers fermented in blue willow jerrys (one no-chilled, the rest chilled).

All had a lot more attention paid to yeast pitching rates and manufacturers advice (all dry yeast which is the first time in ages)...also increasing stc temps towards the end of fermentation. I am kegging them within a f/n of pitching, only taking one sample towards the end to make sure there are no obvious ferment or yeasst related flaws that will require more time.

So far so good. I have a sample in a 5L demijohn on the bench of a beer from 4 weeks ago...it finished fermenting and is still showing no signs of the horrid white infection.

I certainly thank you all for your advice and concern. While I didn't quite have the palm-to-forehead moment of enlightenment, I am pretty happy to say that excessive exposure to the environment might have been the cause. As Manticle pointed out I have lots of plants that may well harbour bugs that are in the direct line of wind-drift of where I chill and ferment etc.

Interested in Rowy's point that every time there is a yeast explosion there are problems...it's possible my attitude towards top croppers had become a little lax...

Anyway, clean ups from the blue willows are easy enough, mind you if I use a serious cropper like 1469 or 1007 (two of my faves) then I think I'll split a single batch across the two jerrys.

I am still concerned that if I go back to liquids then the horrid white devil will appear due to the stirplate drawing in constant air.

Guess I just need to suck it up and try another brew with a liquid to see what happens.....after a few more delicious beers with us05, bry97, belle saison, notto, etc etc...I haven't even looked at the dry lager yeasts for some schwarzs yet haha

Cheers all.

:icon_chickcheers:

 

[bum]

Awesome news!

I am still concerned that if I go back to liquids then the horrid white devil will appear due to the stirplate drawing in constant air.

Direct pitch 2 packs?

 

[manticle]

Yep. Suck up the expense for a bit just to get on track.

Safe to drink at yours next week then?

 

[Lecterfan]

Yep. Suck up the expense for a bit just to get on track.

Safe to drink at yours next week then?

Yes mate, if we get sick of the mallow - I have one keg that is a pretty good drinker, and another kegged today that could be a goer also.

 

[MartinOC]

I've read this whole thing & can't come up with any ideas/definitive solution without knowing your WHOLE brewing/sanitation regime in detail. Hopefully, you've got it sorted by now.

Just in case.....

Take off and nuke it from orbit

...'only way to be sure...

 

[mash head]

Good to hear you are back on track.
I remember reading about a similar persistant infection a while ago that was tracked back to a bacteria in the drainage system being air born. Something else to think about.