Illegal Backyard Bars

[J Grimmer]

As long as the neighbors aren't being pissed off by these places, then I think it's fine. I imagine these kind of 'locals' are much more affordable and safe compared to going to city pubs and stuff. No crappy bar staff, no jerk bouncers looking for a reason to kick you out, and a relaxed atmosphere watching the races or the cricket. Sounds like my kind of place.

+1 and a decent beer to beer served.

 

[Smashin]

Nope, plain and simple its wrong no matter how you look at it. Some one said it earlier this isn't a bunch of mates chipping on a keg, these dudes are running a for profit enterprise. You can buy a 50L keg for $160 at $3 a schooner that's $400, thats not just covering "being a host" fees. I would have though given the general maturity of the member here, particularly being a forum on a related subject, that a higher ground would have been maintained.

Say what you like but I wont shit in my own nest.

Smashin.

 

[Kieren]

Sounds like Whyalla is a hotspot for illegal bars. Maybe I'm missing out on a potential second revenue stream?

 

[Guysmiley54]

As long as the neighbors aren't being pissed off by these places, then I think it's fine. I imagine these kind of 'locals' are much more affordable and safe compared to going to city pubs and stuff. No crappy bar staff, no jerk bouncers looking for a reason to kick you out, and a relaxed atmosphere watching the races or the cricket. Sounds like my kind of place.

This is my problem with this, would you like to live next door to one of these?

I have lived next door to heavy partying people and it is horrendous!! If my children are being woken up at all hours because of noise from drunken idiots it is NOT OK.

I'm all for a cheap drink and a good time with mates but there is a reason why councils don't zone these types of businesses where people try to make their homes.

 

[Hatchy]

Sounds like Whyalla is a hotspot for illegal bars. Maybe I'm missing out on a potential second revenue stream?

I thought of you when I read the article mate. With the amount you brew compared to how much you drink you'd be onto something. You'd need pay tv & a decent smoking area.

 

[ekul]

How does this sound for a headline "MAN EXPLOITS LOOPHOLE TO AVOID TAX, but still expects taxpayers to foot his hospital bill". The media always overexaggerates everything.

 

[Kieren]

I thought of you when I read the article mate. With the amount you brew compared to how much you drink you'd be onto something. You'd need pay tv & a decent smoking area.

Could go the pay tv but not the smoking area.

Oh well, back to bottling my IIPA and washing more bottles for my Wit to bottled on Friday. How much should I charge for them at my bar?

Edit: on second thought - I don't think many Whyalla locals would appreciated a beer with substance.

 

[kenlock]

Could go the pay tv but not the smoking area.

Oh well, back to bottling my IIPA and washing more bottles for my Wit to bottled on Friday. How much should I charge for them at my bar?

Edit: on second thought - I don't think many Whyalla locals would appreciated a beer with substance.

1/2 price for the Wit, and double for the IIPA!!

 

[raven19]

...Can't imagine this new 'craze' doing much damage to the Aussie Hotelier Industry, shit they're probably trying to lease them pokies right now

:lol: Gold!

 

[black_labb]

Nope, plain and simple its wrong no matter how you look at it. Some one said it earlier this isn't a bunch of mates chipping on a keg, these dudes are running a for profit enterprise. You can buy a 50L keg for $160 at $3 a schooner that's $400, thats not just covering "being a host" fees. I would have though given the general maturity of the member here, particularly being a forum on a related subject, that a higher ground would have been maintained.

Say what you like but I wont shit in my own nest.

Smashin.

Against the law and wrong are 2 separate things. The fact that someone is enterprising doesnt make them evil. Its when they start bringing pokies in that its evil.

Having said that I wouldnt support one, though I can understand the reason they exist.

 

[Hatchy]

The article really has little to no actual information. That article could easily be describing my place with the lack of detail they include. I don't tend to go to pubs much since they banned smoking (the Wheaty is the exception) & these days I won't go anywhere that has bouncers. I don't want to start another argument about bouncers, I just feel that if a bar feels that they need bouncers then there's a strong chance that there's going to be people there that I don't want to drink with. As far as charging for my beer, I just wouldn't.

 

[manticle]

Nope, plain and simple its wrong no matter how you look at it. Some one said it earlier this isn't a bunch of mates chipping on a keg, these dudes are running a for profit enterprise. You can buy a 50L keg for $160 at $3 a schooner that's $400, thats not just covering "being a host" fees. I would have though given the general maturity of the member here, particularly being a forum on a related subject, that a higher ground would have been maintained.

Say what you like but I wont shit in my own nest.

Smashin.

So you oppose the concept of making a profit on moral grounds?

 

[Kieren]

Against the law and wrong are 2 separate things. The fact that someone is enterprising doesnt make them evil. Its when they start bringing pokies in that its evil.

Having said that I wouldnt support one, though I can understand the reason they exist.

Separate things? As in mutually exclusive? Surely not. To go out physically assault someone is wrong and against the law. To sell alcohol without a license is against the law and wrong.

In a backdoor bar as described in the article there will be no control over
- sale to minors
- responsible sale of alcohol in a safe environment to staff and other 'patrons'
- promotion of responsible attitude to consumption of alcohol
- social disruption to the local community, yes, this is a real problem
- fire safety
- etc

Not quite sure what it has to do with pokies?

 

[manticle]

Separate things and mutually exclusive are not the same nor interchangeable. Pretty certain that wasn't implied.

 

[Kieren]

I have perhaps taken the other extreme view here. Just trying to imply that there is no one to monitor these operations and potential issues around them. In smallish communities where word of mouth travels fast, I see the potential of these 'bars' to have some social impact on the surrounding community, perhaps more so than in a capital city. In a town that already has enough problems with anti-social drink related problems this could be exacerbated.

 

[michael_aussie]

This is my problem with this, would you like to live next door to one of these?
I have lived next door to heavy partying people and it is horrendous!! If my children are being woken up at all hours because of noise from drunken idiots it is NOT OK.
I'm all for a cheap drink and a good time with mates but there is a reason why councils don't zone these types of businesses where people try to make their homes.

+1 = As much as I hate the way local councils operate, someone needs to control what happens where.
NIMBY

How does this sound for a headline "MAN EXPLOITS LOOPHOLE TO AVOID TAX, but still expects taxpayers to foot his hospital bill". The media always overexaggerates everything.

Is that really an over-exageration?
One of the reasons why Australia's economy is strong compared to Greece's economy being a basket case, is we have a fair well policed broad tax system.

Companies pay tax.
Wage earners pay tax.
Consumers pay tax.

A cash economy puts a higher tax burden on the "other poor suckers".
Why should a "back yard" pub avoid taxes, when legit pubs have to pay for a licence, and pay the relevant taxes.

I'm not against a bunch of mates chippping in to buy bulk beer (or pay for HB costs) together, drinking in one of their sheds.
This is different than a revenue raising business.

It the same reason why we can't all turn our private cars into "taxis", or our emplyers can't pay us "cash in hand", or there are limits to how many smokes/grog etc you can carry in through customs at the airport.

 

[Tanga]

Separate things? As in mutually exclusive? Surely not. To go out physically assault someone is wrong and against the law. To sell alcohol without a license is against the law and wrong.

In a backdoor bar as described in the article there will be no control over
- sale to minors
- responsible sale of alcohol in a safe environment to staff and other 'patrons'
- promotion of responsible attitude to consumption of alcohol
- social disruption to the local community, yes, this is a real problem
- fire safety
- etc

Not quite sure what it has to do with pokies?

Hmmm, that argument bothers me. It's like my born again Christian workmate's arguement - that if people weren't Christian what was stopping them committing rape or murder :unsure: . Errr, morals dude.

The fact is though there are a lot of people out there without what I'd consider a decent moral compass. The law against backyard bars isn't a bad thing, people like that can be charged. I don't know if that's what these backyard bars are like, however, so I reserve judgement.

 

[ekul]

+1 = As much as I hate the way local councils operate, someone needs to control what happens where.
NIMBY


Is that really an over-exageration?
One of the reasons why Australia's economy is strong compared to Greece's economy being a basket case, is we have a fair well policed broad tax system.

Companies pay tax.
Wage earners pay tax.
Consumers pay tax.

A cash economy puts a higher tax burden on the "other poor suckers".
Why should a "back yard" pub avoid taxes, when legit pubs have to pay for a licence, and pay the relevant taxes.

I'm not against a bunch of mates chippping in to buy bulk beer (or pay for HB costs) together, drinking in one of their sheds.
This is different than a revenue raising business.

It the same reason why we can't all turn our private cars into "taxis", or our emplyers can't pay us "cash in hand", or there are limits to how many smokes/grog etc you can carry in through customs at the airport.

I wasn't reffering to the backyard bars, i was making a comment that the media can make a story out of very little.
The headline "MAN EXPLOITS LOOPHOLE TO AVOID TAX, but still expects taxpayers to foot his hospital bill" could be used in the newspaper when referring to any homebrewer. Homebrewers avoid paying tax by making their own, a loophole, but still expect the country to provide services like hospital and roads. There's nothing wrong with that, but the media could make it into a bullshit story, and with a little Tracy Grimshaw magic i could easily envisage such a story being on a current affair. "He avoided tax, gave himself liver cancer and now wants YOU to foot the bill, up next, the alcoholic bludger who wants to waste your taxes".

In the news story noones been convicted (the guy in the story has only been charged, he may have been proven innocent), the police have only alleggedly found one illegal bar (of questionable size) and some other bloke who owns a bar said "It (the operation of illegal bars) is common knowledge in this working man's town and it's made a difference of about 40 per cent to our front-bar trade,". So why isn't he reporting these bars to the police? Wouldn't he of all people be reporting all of the "dozens" of backyard bars that he knows of? This story has been crafted out of nothing.

 

[Phoney]

In a backdoor bar as described in the article there will be no control over
- sale to minors
- responsible sale of alcohol in a safe environment to staff and other 'patrons'
- promotion of responsible attitude to consumption of alcohol
- social disruption to the local community, yes, this is a real problem
- fire safety
- etc

Not quite sure what it has to do with pokies?

When you visit enough countries with none of the above (other than perhaps sale to minors) restrictions, red tape & expensive licensing forced onto vendors selling alcohol, you realize just how unnecessary and ridiculous most of them are.

In a true free market economy, there should be nothing stopping you from setting up a stall on the side of the road and selling your brew to passers by....

 

[proudscum]

Was wondering when GST became a non tax.As we all pay it Gas,grain hops,water(town supply)etc etc....

I wasn't reffering to the backyard bars, i was making a comment that the media can make a story out of very little.
The headline "MAN EXPLOITS LOOPHOLE TO AVOID TAX, but still expects taxpayers to foot his hospital bill" could be used in the newspaper when referring to any homebrewer. Homebrewers avoid paying tax by making their own, a loophole, but still expect the country to provide services like hospital and roads. There's nothing wrong with that, but the media could make it into a bullshit story, and with a little Tracy Grimshaw magic i could easily envisage such a story being on a current affair. "He avoided tax, gave himself liver cancer and now wants YOU to foot the bill, up next, the alcoholic bludger who wants to waste your taxes".

In the news story noones been convicted (the guy in the story has only been charged, he may have been proven innocent), the police have only alleggedly found one illegal bar (of questionable size) and some other bloke who owns a bar said "It (the operation of illegal bars) is common knowledge in this working man's town and it's made a difference of about 40 per cent to our front-bar trade,". So why isn't he reporting these bars to the police? Wouldn't he of all people be reporting all of the "dozens" of backyard bars that he knows of? This story has been crafted out of nothing.