How To Make My Stout More Malty?

[peas_and_corn]

I made a foreign extra stout recently, and while it's a big batch, I want there to be more malt/coffee/chocolate flavour in it. Here's the grain bill for a 22L batch-

2.75kg light munich malt
2.75kg pale malt
600g caramunich
450g dark wheat malt
300g roasted barley
300g carafa
300g black patent malt
250g flaked barley

The flavours I want to boost most is the coffee/chocolate flavours that are already in the beer. Also a boost in the smoky flabour (only a minor increase) would be good too.

Anybody got suggestions about how to change the grain bill to achieve this?

Cheers,

Dave

 

[Kai]

I'd substitute some of the carafa for chocolate malt. That will give you a more chocolate / coffee flavour while keeping your colour roughly similar.

Then again I'd also be cutting the dark grain bill a fair bit overall, that's a massive amount of dark specialties you have in there.

 

[peas_and_corn]

yeah, it is quite a bit of specialty malts, but it's quite tasty!

I was thinking of some chocolate malt next time. Promash had the colour at black long before I added the last ingredients, so that's no biggie. I was also thinking of upping the barley a little, but I'm not so sure

 

[MHB]

Mash Cooler

MHB

 

[warrenlw63]

Second what Kai says and try some choc malt... Maybe even a bit of brown malt also. That gives some good coffee flavours when used sparingly. I'd even sub the flaked barley for the brown malt. You already have wheat malt there which should achieve a similar effect.

MHB? Not sure I follow what you meant? Mashing cooler/lower temp would only serve to make a drier, more attenuated beer? :unsure:

Warren -

 

[GMK]

i also Agree with Kai... Well Said

You could also halve the roast barley - and add 250gms of Amber Malt.

This should help

 

[albrews]

I made a foreign extra stout recently, and while it's a big batch, I want there to be more malt/coffee/chocolate flavour in it. Here's the grain bill for a 22L batch-

2.75kg light munich malt
2.75kg pale malt
600g caramunich
450g dark wheat malt
300g roasted barley
300g carafa
300g black patent malt
250g flaked barley

The flavours I want to boost most is the coffee/chocolate flavours that are already in the beer. Also a boost in the smoky flabour (only a minor increase) would be good too.

Anybody got suggestions about how to change the grain bill to achieve this?

Cheers,

Dave

hi, from experience with black patent malt, i would reduce it to a minimum. i tried this quantity accidently with a can of stout and could not make a good drink from it. instead of improving with age ,it worsened.
cheers alan

 

[peas_and_corn]

hi, from experience with black patent malt, i would reduce it to a minimum. i tried this quantity accidently with a can of stout and could not make a good drink from it. instead of improving with age ,it worsened.
cheers alan

What sort of flavours did it add?

Cheers for the advice guys, I'll consider it all when amending the recipe next time I brew.

 

[Jazzafish]

I made a foreign extra stout recently, and while it's a big batch, I want there to be more malt/coffee/chocolate flavour in it. Here's the grain bill for a 22L batch-

2.75kg light munich malt
2.75kg pale malt
600g caramunich
450g dark wheat malt
300g roasted barley
300g carafa
300g black patent malt
250g flaked barley

The flavours I want to boost most is the coffee/chocolate flavours that are already in the beer. Also a boost in the smoky flabour (only a minor increase) would be good too.

Anybody got suggestions about how to change the grain bill to achieve this?

Cheers,

Dave

Looking at that malt profile I believe that you may be a bit over the top with the Black malt and Flaked Barley amounts. I believe they would dominate any malt sweetness. You'd also need chocolate malt for more of a chocolate flavour. Try replacing some/most of the Black and Flaked with chocolate and amber malt.

What temps are you mashing at? Warmer mash will give you a sweeter (malty) stout, lower mash will give you a drier stout. I'd do a single infusion at 68*C for 60mins or even a step of 60*C for 20mins, 70*C for 40mins.

 

[lou]

The secret to a richer flavoured stout is in the yeast not the grain

if you up the dark malts you just end upwith a stout that tastes like dirt - rather burnt dirt - if you munch on a handful of black malt - that is the exact flavour you will get in the beer -

what you need to use is a fruity full flavoured yeast and ferment warm

the fruityness of the yeast combines with the roastyness of the dark malts to create the chocolate and coffee flavours you are after

lou

 

[dicko]

The secret to a richer flavoured stout is in the yeast not the grain

if you up the dark malts you just end upwith a stout that tastes like dirt - rather burnt dirt - if you munch on a handful of black malt - that is the exact flavour you will get in the beer -

what you need to use is a fruity full flavoured yeast and ferment warm

the fruityness of the yeast combines with the roastyness of the dark malts to create the chocolate and coffee flavours you are after

lou

While there is some good advice re cutting back the black malt and carafa etc and adding some chocolate, I agree with lou with regard to the yeast.
Select a yeast that will give you the malty profile and along with some modification to the grain bill you should get away from the overpowering effect of the black malt and get closer to what you want.

BTW, what yeast did you use?

Cheers

 

[peas_and_corn]

hmm, I'll think about using a different yeast. I didn't have a huge choice at the time so I threw in 1968. What would be the best yeast to use?

 

[dicko]

hmm, I'll think about using a different yeast. I didn't have a huge choice at the time so I threw in 1968. What would be the best yeast to use?

1968 would be a good choice so if you only change one thing at a time revamp the grain bill and brew it again with the same yeast. By changing only one thing you will be able to more accurately determine the effect.

Other yeasts might include 1084, 1318, 1187.

I hope this helps

Cheers

 

[Kai]

Cooper's ale yeast is also stellar in a stout.

 

[MHB]

MHB? Not sure I follow what you meant? Mashing cooler/lower temp would only serve to make a drier, more attenuated beer?

P&C has over 7.5 Kg of malt in a 25 L batch, if you drop the mash temp 1-2C yes the wort will be more attenuative, then the flavours from all the coloured malts can show through, its not like he is skimping on anything.

Cool mashing is an old trick for getting a lot of colour without pulling too much tannin. For example try a mini mash 25% Dark Crystal or CarraRed with base malt at around 61-62 C, cool slow sparge -65C or batch sparge in the low 60's, you can pull a remarkable amount of red with out the tongue blistering astringency of the same grist mashed hotter.
I got this from the guy that used to own EDME, they made a LME called Tradimalt, it was stunningly red, without the harshness you would expect. This malt was used in the EDME Red Ale, I understand that the were using 450 EBC custom made Crystal malt.

Because you are biasing toward beta activity it would be a very slow mash 90-120 Min, the high proportion of coloured malts will provide oodles of body building components and melanoidins, especially with the cara and flake in the grist given.

I wasnt suggesting he mash quite that cool, just that the mash temperature can play a very significant role in the final outcome, and that this might be worth a try.

MHB

 

[Trough Lolly]

1968 would be a good choice so if you only change one thing at a time revamp the grain bill and brew it again with the same yeast. By changing only one thing you will be able to more accurately determine the effect.

Other yeasts might include 1084, 1318, 1187.

I hope this helps

Cheers

...and IMHO, 1028 is a good lager strain too!

Cheers,
TL

 

[Stuster]

...and IMHO, 1028 is a good lager strain too!

:unsure:

I'm a fan of the Burton Ale yeast WLP023, but not sure if you get White Labs in the provinces.

 

[dicko]

:unsure:

I'm a fan of the Burton Ale yeast WLP023, but not sure if you get White Labs in the provinces.

Oh, I wish for a supplier of white labs in the provinces! :lol:

I have ordered White Labs Yeasts from interstate and the best thing is that you dont have to break their "cherry" prior to use :lol:

P and C and I both live in the provinces but if I had an option to buy White Labs locally the White Labs it would be. :lol: (now i'll get belted from all the Wyeast fans)

Cheers

 

[Stuster]

Just joking of course.

In Sydney, on the other hand, it's hard to get Wyeast. There are places, but out of the way for me. I'd be happy to get some of their yeasts, such as the Scottish ale yeast, for which the WL products are just not the same. I think they both have good products, at least the wyeast ones I've pinched from Xmas case beers have been good. :lol:

 

[dicko]

Just joking of course.

In Sydney, on the other hand, it's hard to get Wyeast. There are places, but out of the way for me. I'd be happy to get some of their yeasts, such as the Scottish ale yeast, for which the WL products are just not the same. I think they both have good products, at least the wyeast ones I've pinched from Xmas case beers have been good. :lol:

I know that we are getting a bit OT within this thread and I hope the moderators and members forgive us but it would be good if someone like Craftbrewer ( read Ross and Josh) or a local HBS could get a deal with White Labs so that us brewers out here away from the founding colony could source this yeast easily.

Cheers :chug: