How to improve head retention

[mondestrunken]

Is this thread for real?

People put napisan in the dishwasher?

How is napisan food grade? Starsan is at least actively made as a food-grade product, not that I would use it on my glasses.

 

[manticle]

They're talking pure sod perc in the dishwasher, not napisan. As food grade as any other washing powder that goes through the dishwashing post-eash rinse cycle.

 

[JasonP]

There's too much effort going on here to clean glasses. Just stick em in dishwasher like normal. If there's still problems then your dishwasher is dirty.
To op, use crystal, wheat or extra hops to enhance head as already suggested by a few.

 

[Dunkelbrau]

There's too much effort going on here to clean glasses. Just stick em in dishwasher like normal. If there's still problems then your dishwasher is dirty.
To op, use crystal, wheat or extra hops to enhance head as already suggested by a few.

Maybe its too much effort for you, but not for others.

I hand wash my glasses and drip dry, and I don't keep them in the fridge.

 

[JasonP]

Maybe its too much effort for you, but not for others.
I hand wash my glasses and drip dry, and I don't keep them in the fridge.

Hand washing glasses is fine but ppl who hand wash, clean with perc followed by hot water rinse then starsan clean is over the top.

 

[droid]

what about your water, are there things in water that make it better or worse for head retention?

I use grolsh bottles, they are rinsed in hot water and dried upside down, the beer is poored to glass, which is mostly just washed in hot water after the fact

so, being that I can get good head with what may seem like sub standard cleaning procedures my advice would be to look at your water table, mash ph, or the rests/brewing methods as per other posts

good luck

<edit> here's a good link which backs up the hop additions as a help

http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/06/25/enhancing-beer-head-retention-for-home-brewers/

 

[chubbytaxman]

Thank you gents for all your replies ....

I have dramatically improved the way I clean my glasses and am now revising favourite recipes to add ingredients as suggested by you brewers more advanced than myself. It wasn't my intention to cause havoc amongst such a fine group of brewers such as yourselves - I do appreciate the input.
I was just wanting to find out what I was doing wrong with my brewing.

I have noticed with a brew recently, that I let some bottle condition in the fridge (around normal fridge temps - as there has been gear in there for SWMBO as well :blink: ) .. and some that were left to condition in controlled conditions. The difference is gob smacking to say the least - Don't condition in chilled environments (rather go with the controlled environment) ... but you guys knew that already ...

Thanks all again

chubby

 

[mje1980]

I used to do vinegar and bi carb on my glasses. Pain in the arse. Then I tried the dishwasher after a thread in here I think. Brilliant results.

I stopped adding carapils and wheat etc for head, and added a short 72c rest as per Manticles advice and i get consistently good to excellent head retention. Might be crazy but I swear some glasses, no matter how they are cleaned ( within reason ) hold better heads than others. If I could be bothered I'll do a short protein rest to boost it a bit. I rarely seem to get problems with head, though I did have a bad run a while ago. Problem kind of went away.

I tried a pils that has been in the keg for probably 2 months the other day, great pillowy head and lacing all the way. Dunno why.

 

[mje1980]

Oh and if you're desperate, you can get a small die grinder and score the bottom of a spare glass. Not too much, just a few small sections on the bottom and the sides near the bottom of the glass. I've done this to 2 of my glasses, the first time I went nuts and scored most of the bottom and up about an inch off the bottom. Head? Way too much. The other one, I just did a few small 3cm long thin sections. Holds a nice head and laces all the way down. I don't need scored glasses for good head and retention but now and then I like to use them.

 

[Tahoose]

I tried a pils that has been in the keg for probably 2 months the other day, great pillowy head and lacing all the way. Dunno why.

Probably relates to conditioning, I'm guessing it also tasted twice as good as it did 6 weeks ago?

 

[mje1980]

Yep, might even be longer than 2 months. This time I did the "pitch cool but then ramp up to 18" style ferment. Didn't like it at all but now months later it's pretty good. Still prefer pitching and fermenting cold though, IMHO gives a super clean crisp result.

 

[billygoat]

If I could be bothered I'll do a short protein rest to boost it

According to the Brewsmith article that someone has linked to above, a rest in the 50-60C range is not desirable if you are chasing head retention.

 

[mje1980]

Sigh...... A short rest is fine, a long one is not

 

[manticle]

According to the Brewsmith article that someone has linked to above, a rest in the 50-60C range is not desirable if you are chasing head retention.

55 for 5 minutes helps head retention.

It's been specified in the thread and is what mje is referring to when he says 'short protein rest'.

 

[billygoat]

55 for 5 minutes helps head retention.It's been specified in the thread and is what mje is referring to when he says 'short protein rest'.[/quote

55 for 5 minutes helps head retention.It's been specified in the thread and is what mje is referring to when he says 'short protein rest'.

I agree, just pointing out that the Beersmith article doesn't.
It states ANY protein rest in the 50-60C is undesirable.
I quite often do a short rest around the 55C mark.

 

[glaab]

clean a glass with starsan, let it air dry then fill it with water and you'll have head.
You may as well just put a capful in the keg .
Manticle knows his stuff and has always been helpful but I'm with MHB on this.
I've copped flak here for rinsing my kegs after starsan-ing them but I always do it.
It takes a lot of rinsing to get the foam out. Congrats on the civility of this thread.
Usually at the first hint of a disagreement there's comments like " I'll ask your mom, she's under the table here"
and real witty stuff like that. Never from the 2 aforementioned though, Cheers

 

[manticle]

The head is not starsan foam. Rinse your no-rinse sanitiser by all means. My main point was that glassware needs to be cleaned properly. I sometimes rinse mine with starsan (which I can assure you works well) but however you do it, clean glasses are a major factor in foam retention. I'm drinking a mild now from a pint glass not rinsed/sprayed with starsan and there's foam clinging to the sides from top to bottom.
I am experienced enough to distinguish starsan foam from head caused by proteins and dextrins so ya mum.

 

[Dips Me Lid]

As pointed out by many others, clean glassware is the key, I use either sodium perc or bi-carb soda, rinse and air dry, works every time for me, be it a home brew or commercial beer.

 

[Adr_0]

Great that everyone recognises clean glassware is as important as the brewing process.

I found where I read that sloshing beer around reduces its head potential, here:
https://www.ibd.org.uk/cms/file/311



Factors which...subsequently improve the head retention :

[SIZE=13.63636302948px]• [/SIZE]Grist with malt made from high nitrogen barley and all malt grist will contribute increased nitrogen to
the wort.
• Poorly modified malts have less protein breakdown resulting in worts with higher protein content.
• It is necessary to avoid excessive wort boiling or excess use of kettle finings which increase the amount of protein
removed as hot and cold break.
• Every time the beer foams it uses up some of the precious foam stabilising proteins, which are left behind as a crust
on the vessel walls. Avoiding beer fobbing during boiling and all subsequent transfers reduces the loss of foam
proteins and ensures more continue into the packaged beer.
• Protein compounds can also be lost during processing through maturation and tight filtration. Care in these areas will
improve foam potential.

I was extremely careful with the dunkelweizen a couple of months ago, and it has rewarded me with an initial meringue which settles into a very tight, stubborn layer of foam about 10mm thick all the way down. 56% wheat may help that, but I would say a good boil, careful transfer, clean glass! would help that too.

Any comments on hot/cold break?

 

[manticle]

Hot and cold break are essentially proteins and proteins are a major factor in foam formation and retention.
The potential negative effects of hot break outweigh any positive ones but cold break is a different story in my experience.