How Much Munich Is Too Much In A Bock

[SJW]

I want to do a big Double Bock and i am planning on using:
5kg of Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe white)
2kg of Munich, light (Joe White)
0.5kg of Wheat Malt
0.4kg of Choc Malt (750 ebc)
OG 1075

Just wondering if this would be way too much Munich @ 25% ???????


stephen

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

Is there such a thing as way too much Munich????

I would be swapping over the amounts of Pils and Munich malts in your recipe Stephen if I were to attempt a dopplebock. At least 75% munich would be nice for that big melanoidin flavour. Or you could perhaps use 10% melanoidin in the recipe if you want to use Pilsner malt as the main base malt. I would also leave the chocolate out and add 5 to 8% Caramunich 2.

This is my take on it anyway.

C&B
TDA

 

[neonmeate]

yeah you can even have 100% munich if you want.

if you do go the lots-of-munich route vs the pils+melanoidin route, i would really look at using german munich, weyermann or hoepfner. i just haven't got the same depth of flavour from aussie munich.

5-8% caramunich would be a good idea too.

 

[Jovial_Monk]

I would use Pilsner, light munich and dark munich in proportions about 5:4:3.

No cara or chocolate grain, nice 4-5 hour boil to darken the wort.

And I agree, Weyermann malts rule!

Jovial Monk

 

[Gough]

A 5 hour boil?? How much gas do you use?

Shawn.

 

[dicko]

How big is your kettle? It would have to be big!!!!!
5 hours at 6 litres per hour = 30 litres
On the inside of the shed roof :lol:
Ants and spiders would be happy.
Cheers

 

[Gulf Brewery]

This is the recipe for my Salvator Doppeboclk clone which was awesome. It was based on the recipe i "Brew Classic European Beers at Home"
Don't be scared by the amount of munich malt in it.



Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 8.05
Anticipated OG: 1.081 Plato: 19.49
Anticipated EBC: 36.9
Anticipated IBU: 30.7
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
30.4 2.45 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 317.42 15
62.1 5.00 kg. Weyermann Munich II Germany 317.42 24
7.5 0.60 kg. Weyermann Caramunich I Germany 300.71 100

Potential represented as IOB- HWE ( L / kg ).


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
24.00 g. Northern Brewer Pellet 10.00 29.7 60 min.
14.00 g. Hallertauer Tradition Plug 2.90 0.9 10 min.


Yeast
-----
WLP 833

Cheers
Pedro

 

[jayse]

Just wondering if this would be way too much Munich @ 25% ???????


stephen

[post="46600"][/post]​

Is there such a thing as way too much Munich????


C&B
TDA

[post="46620"][/post]​

yeah you can even have 100% munich if you want.

[post="46622"][/post]​

Don't be scared by the amount of munich malt in it.



Cheers
Pedro

[post="46649"][/post]​

Amen. make it all 'german' munich malt.

Jayse

 

[SJW]

I find it strange that some of u guys are saying to add Cara. Why would i add that if i am using Munich? Is'nt Caramunich just a specialty Munich grain? If i am going to mash Munich anyway why add Caramunich? Maybe someone with a greater understanding than me could explain.

 

[roach]

Never done a Bock. But i assume that adding Caramunich is just like adding normal crystal to pale malt for an pale ale.

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

I find it strange that some of u guys are saying to add Cara. Why would i add that if i am using Munich? Is'nt Caramunich just a specialty Munich grain? If i am going to mash Munich anyway why add Caramunich? Maybe someone with a greater understanding than me could explain.

[post="46716"][/post]​

As roach says, Cara Munich is a caramel/crystal malt. Using this in the brew will add some more complexity and mouthfeel. Although with that much Munich it may be negligable.

Why don't you try and brew it without a crystal addition and report back?

Good luck
C&B
TDA

 

[GOLIATH]

I agree, go the munich.
Dont think i'd worry too much about a 5 hour boil though. What book did you get that from Tom?

Dave

 

[pint of lager]

Munich is a great grain. Something I have been meaning to do is a brew with 100% Munich. Must make sure I get around to it this year.

Vienna is just as wonderful. Have made plenty of 50% Vienna, 50% Pilsner style lagers and they are a real treat.

The whole Vienna/Munich/Oktoberfest range of beers are at the moment my favourites.

 

[SteveSA]

4-5 hour boil to darken the wort.

[post="46640"][/post]​

Holy moly!!

That'd use a hell of an amount of gas. You're not bottling your own flammable gas are you JM?

 

[mje1980]

Pint of lager, one of the guys in the brew club did a 100% munich lager once, cant remember what yeast or what ibu's, but man it was malty and delicious!!. Now that i have a mill, and grain is cheaper, i may do this myself, if my lhbs ever gets hold of some danish lager yeast for me

 

[Jovial_Monk]

When I only had my 20L Rubbermaid mash tun I would have to boil a long time to bring the wort to the starting gravity I wanted. This long boil darkened the wort by caramelising some of the wort sugars. It also led to a very smooth beer. Long boils really benefit barleywines, strong Scotch ales and doppelbocks. Try it!

With my 51L tun I can get stronger worts but still do a long boil. This does not need to be a full-on boil, once the wort is close to the OG I want a simmer is all that is needed. Often, too, with a huge beer (1100+) I find I add the last wort when the first wort has been boiling a while (batch sparging with half hour rests in between running off wort.

BTW dicko, I do NOT boil in my shed but just outside it: burning propane releases lots of carbon monoxide!

So how do you brew a OG 1105 doppelbock, Dave?

JM

 

[GOLIATH]

I'm interested in the technical reference Tom. I am not saying you are wrong. In fact quite the reverse.

In thinking about it. There are many processes, functions and ideas that we as a craft have developed over time that have become accepted by brewers as fact. Even though the fundamental reasons for of those processes may have been dismissed as folklore by those that do actually know.

I have never seen a reference to such long boils, even for barley wines. Kunze, Daniels, Stewart, Palmer, Higgins ??? There are plenty of references both technical and historic to double and triple decoctions and I and many others understand the decoction method.

So in the interest of learning more and assisting those viewing the forum, I am interested to know whether a technical reference guided you to the long boil or did you just decide to boil longer to achieve the gravity and along the way benefited from some caramelisation that you felt improved your beer?

So I suppose if the latter is the case, we need to be careful that, whilst it may work for you with your equipment, it may not be the ideal for someone else with far less experience than you.

You asked what I do.

I am not technical enough to produce my own recipe. This beer comes from a guy called Ray McNeil. I have made it more than once and I love it. I have never shared it. But it suits my equipment. OG is 1100

11kg Base malts are Pils and Munich approx 70/30 with a small amount (up to 200g) Weyermann Carafa Special 2

Mash all grains other than munich at 60 dec c

I mash in the Munich grain at 45 dec C and gently raise its temp to 63 dec over 45 mins and hold for 15 mins. Then boil it (the mash) for 10 minutes. (I use the kettle on the burner)

Combine the Munich mash with the rest of the grain and allow to rest for 15 mins then run off and sparge.

Hard Boil at least 90mins to 2 hours.

At the end of the conditioning phase run some co2 into the jerrycan for about 10 mins then allow to drop bright again. (I'm not sure what this does but it's something about CO2 Scrubbing and I haven't bothered to find out why.... Could be another folklore thing!!)

Hop selection has been Northern Brewer & Tettnanger,
Perhaps Precocce or Tardiff and maybe Hallertau/ Hersbucker would also be ok.

Wyeast 2206.

I am NOT telling anyone else to do this. It works for me is all, I have made it twice and will try and put another one down soon ready for Xmas.

Keep Brewing
Dave

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Does everything have to be in a book? Half the books are just derived from other books!

60C is a pretty cool mash producing a thin beer! geez, hardly activate the amylase enzymes! 66C is a much better temp if you are worried about the big beer finishing at way too high a FG. Aeration/big starters are a better way to overcome the problem.

I doubt a two hour boil would be enough to concentrate the wort sufficiently to reach the 1105 level. At least I found it so.

And the recipe does not have enough Munich (light or dark?) for a true doppelbock!

JM

 

[dicko]

Just wondering if this would be way too much Munich @ 25% ???????


stephen

Well JM It would have been a lot better if you had just contributed a sensible answer to the original question rather than going off on a tangent of 5 hour boils, and carbon monoxide poisoning etc

Now carbon monoxide is an unusual subject while brewing with LPG gas burners, and it is more unusual that you bring this up.
I have always been lead to believe that fork lifts and other internal combustion engines that operate INSIDE buildings, are fired by LPG so as NOT to produce corbon monoxide gasses.
This operation makes it safe for us mortals (and brewers ) to be in the building while this burning of LPG takes place.

Yes JM, even if you are doing a 5 hour boil.

So I guess, that with your theory on carbon monoxide poisoning, that anyone with a gas stove at home may die if they do a 5 hour boil on their cooker.

My comments were only meant as a joke as most would not contemplate a 5 hour boil to produce a flavour that may be reproduced by other methods and had nothing to do with where one may choose to use an LPG burner.

Cheers

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Hmmmm I thought forklifts and cars ran on compressed natural gas? At a service station, the gas for our LPG bottles and that for cars comes out of different tanks.

In a caravan the LPG stove is on low pressure, using a lot less gas than our high pressure burners!

I was being serious, dicko, I always am on brewing matters. A long boil does have major benefits to the reulting beer, and I also did give a 5;4:3 Pilsner:light Munich: dark Munich ratio.

JM