How much bleach to clean bottles

[Markbeer]

I use bleach, starsan and sodium percarbonate.

I say change your routine every now and again so the bugs don't adapt.

Wild yeast can be a big issue for some so don't write bleach off.

Which kills more between star san and bleach with a little vinegar added?

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

Which kills more between star san and bleach with a little vinegar added?

Numbers game is kind of irrelevant. If a brewery designed cleaner and a brewery designed sanitiser mean that my beers turn out the way they should, I wouldn't waste time with something that could destroy the flavour and must be rinsed (re-introducing potential infection) to avoid so.

 

[tugger]

I use peroxitane. Removes the glue and sanitises well. Also called oxysan and vortex. Peroxyacetic acid.

 

[Matplat]

Just wondering if I can shift the focus of this thread slightly to the fermentor?

Does everyone use bleach to clean the fermentor?

As I am just starting out, anticipating my first brew, I am a bit worried about the plastic of the fermentor taking on unwanted bleach flavour when washing it? as it is so large (compared with a bottle) I imagine it may be hard to guarantee completely rinsing off bleach.

I plan on using the sodium metabisulfate supplied with my kit to sanitise it afterwards, but am not sure about the cleaning phase....

Cheers, Matt

 

[michaeld16]

Just wondering if I can shift the focus of this thread slightly to the fermentor?

Does everyone use bleach to clean the fermentor?

As I am just starting out, anticipating my first brew, I am a bit worried about the plastic of the fermentor taking on unwanted bleach flavour when washing it? as it is so large (compared with a bottle) I imagine it may be hard to guarantee completely rinsing off bleach.

I plan on using the sodium metabisulfate supplied with my kit to sanitise it afterwards, but am not sure about the cleaning phase....

Cheers, Matt

Get ya self a bottle of starsan for sanitizing best thing i ever did the sodium metabisulphite can be nasty stuff to use and its ability to sanitize is questionable and can leave residual flavour. As for the cleaning part i like sodium percarbonate soak my fermenter in it then rinse then sanitize with starsan before use

 

[Matplat]

When you say soak the fermenter, do you mean you put it in a bath so it is fully submerged? Surely that would be a crap-load of sodiume percarbonate to use each tiime?

Or do you just put a few litres in the bottom and give it a swish round?

Cheers, Matt

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

PBW for your fermenter.

Bleach and beer aren't friends.

 

[superstock]

Napisan is very effective, the only problem I have, is that it makes everything so slippery.

 

[stux]

Sure it doesn't just make you slippery?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saponification

 

[Matplat]

PBW for your fermenter.

Bleach and beer aren't friends.

Please clarify PBW? I am still adjusting to new terminology

So napisan for cleaning both fermenter and bottles, and starsan for sanitising both too?

So you just fill the fermenter with napisan, and give it a wipe?

Cheers, Matt

 

[michaeld16]

I tend to just let it soak overnight give it a bit of a swirl and the krausen ring just dissolves away, i use sodium perc for bottles as well but i like to get a brush into them as well

 

[michaeld16]

Look up pbw on sponsors site i havnt used it yet but its supposed to be the ducks guts

 

[manticle]

Please clarify PBW? I am still adjusting to new terminology

So napisan for cleaning both fermenter and bottles, and starsan for sanitising both too?

So you just fill the fermenter with napisan, and give it a wipe?

Cheers, Matt

Powdered brewery wash, blend of chemicals made by fivestar chemicals including sodium percarbonate and sodium metasilicate

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

On top of the other ex platoons, PBW is kind of really brewery appropriate unscented napisan.

 

[waggastew]

And just to clarify, cleaning (removing solids/gunk/yeast etc) and sanitising (killing as many bacteria/wild yeast as possible) are different things. PBW is a great cleaner but not an effective sanitiser. Bleach is a great sanitiser but does not clean.

Bleach can be good as a sanitiser when you have a big wild yeast/bacteria problem. As said above though it takes a bit of washing (hot water or and acid wash speeds things up) and does not play friendly with stainless

 

[wynnum1]

sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide.
Caustic chemicals that are highly alkaline and
corrosive are widely used as cleaning agents
in industries such as food, hospitality, health
and metal cleaning. The most common caustic
chemicals are liquids containing either sodium
hydroxide or potassium hydroxide.

http://www.vwa.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/14531/HSS0094_-_Cleaning_-_Using_caustic_cleaners.pdf

 

[Matplat]

sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide.
Caustic chemicals that are highly alkaline and
corrosive are widely used as cleaning agents
in industries such as food, hospitality, health
and metal cleaning. The most common caustic
chemicals are liquids containing either sodium
hydroxide or potassium hydroxide.

http://www.vwa.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/14531/HSS0094_-_Cleaning_-_Using_caustic_cleaners.pdf

Today I went to the closest thing I have to a LHBS, Big W.... They had 'bottle cleaner' so I bought some. It is a brigalow product labeled simply as 'Alkaline Salts' along with some significant labelling about no contact with skin. Would that be potassium hydroxide?

It doesn't mention anything about whether it can or cannot be used on plastics, whaddyafink? Either way il use it on the bottles...

Cheers, Matt

 

[wynnum1]

Could be a mixture 2% solution seems to be where its dangerous

ALSO Sodium carbonate Sodium percarbonate




Potassium hydroxide solutions with concentrations of approximately 0.5 to 2.0% are irritating when coming in contact with the skin, while concentrations higher than 2% are corrosive

 

[JDW81]

Seriously guys, cleaning and sanitising your gear isn't rocket science, and doesn't need any kind of hard (or toxic) chemicals.

The first and golden rule of any brewery equipment is simple: clean it as soon as you have finished with it. Fermenters can be cleaned with a small amount of detergent and hot water and stored upside down. They don't need soaking if you clean them straight away.

Use sodium percarbonate (napisan) for tough stains, built up crud in fermenters and cubes and if anything needs a good soak.

Bottles: Rinse immediately after use, dry and store upside down then on brew day use a bottle washer with no rinse formulation and dry on a bottle tree. If your bottles are full of crap the soak in sodium perc and give them the beans with a bottle brush attached to a drill (if you rinse immediately then they should rarely need this treatment).

You don't need bleach, vinegar, caustic agents etc. If your LHBS doesn't stock starsan then you can easily buy it over the internet and have it posted.

If you're worried about cost (yes bleach is cheaper than starsan) then add up the cost of a few lost brews to infection then see how expensive they seem. FWIW I have a 500mL bottle of no rinse that I've had for 3 years and it is still half full, brewing about 10 times per year.

I've used starsan and napisan from aldi since I started and am yet to have an infection and never had any worries about residual flavours being left on my gear.

Just my 2 bob's worth.

JD