How long would you give a lager yeast to kick off?

[Dave70]

Made the starter last Saturday and pitched Sunday - Wyeast 2278 - at 10 deg.
As of this morning, still not a sign of activity. Not a bubble.
Just making me a little anxious as we're in the sweet spot for infection.

 

[Black n Tan]

I prefer to use 2278 at 12C. At 10C you are at the bottom end of its working range. That said I normally see activity within 48 hours. I would increase the temp to 12C.

 

[Weizguy]

Big starter? Was it active, or allowed to relax for more than a couple of days? What size starter and what size batch of beer?

As you would well know, bubbles do not a fermentation make, especially if relying on an airlock.

Can you peer into the fermentor to see if there are signs?

Did you crash chill after pitching, or pitch below the temp that the yeast was sitting at?

My rule of thumb is: Patience is king with your lager brewing. (Hey that rhymes, if you use the right inflection).
I plan to brew with the W2278 again soon. It's a great yeast and the flavours, the FLAVOURS...

 

[Dave70]

Big starter? Was it active, or allowed to relax for more than a couple of days? What size starter and what size batch of beer?

2 L starter - 25L of wort.

As you would well know, bubbles do not a fermentation make, especially if relying on an airlock.


Can you peer into the fermentor to see if there are signs?

Yep, flat as a tack. Not even a hint of krausen.

Did you crash chill after pitching, or pitch below the temp that the yeast was sitting at?

Chilled to 7 deg in cube (after kettle chilling) then racked to fermenter and pitched Sunday arvo at around 10 deg.

My rule of thumb is: Patience is king with your lager brewing. (Hey that rhymes, if you use the right inflection).
I plan to brew with the W2278 again soon. It's a great yeast and the flavours, the FLAVOURS...

My general rule of thumb is impaitence, but I shall try your method.

 

[Dave70]

I prefer to use 2278 at 12C. At 10C you are at the bottom end of its working range. That said I normally see activity within 48 hours. I would increase the temp to 12C.

Shall do.

 

[Black n Tan]

Hey Dave did you stir your starter? Did you oxygenate or aerate your wort?

 

[Dave70]

Hey Dave did you stir your starter? Did you oxygenate or aerate your wort?

I shake the starter (no stir plate yet), and oxygenate the wort with an air stone.
All the same, should make no difference as to whether the yeast fires or not.

 

[Screwtop]

You would need 2 packs of yeast for even a smallish lager and should be aiming for a starter volume of 4L. Yeast cells do not like cold temps, lager yeast strains have been selected due to them being able to work at low temps without dropping off to sleep like other strains. Low temps using lager strains produce crisp clean fermentation, good if you are a mega lager producer as less malt and hops are required to add flavour/character to the beer with such clean fermentation. As lager yeast cells will do the job but are not happy at low temps, we need to give them every possible chance at survival by using a high pitching rate, nice big active starter and oxygenated wort.

Screwy

 

[Weizguy]

I would usually make at least a 3 litre starter for a 25 litre batch of wort. Maybe a drop of olive oil and yeast nutrient in the starter if not currently using it.

Flashback to Sept 2005. I note that it took a few days to kick off at 10°C , but was sooo worth it!

I think I still have that same culture of W2278.

Les

 

[Black n Tan]

I shake the starter (no stir plate yet), and oxygenate the wort with an air stone.
All the same, should make no difference as to whether the yeast fires or not.

It can make a difference to the lag phase. I think a 2L starter with intermittent shaking is not giving you enough yeast and consequently the lag phase is extended. A stir plate really helps for making big healthy lager starters.

 

[TheWiggman]

The more I read of this sort of stuff the more I'm realising a stir plate is almost necessary for a lager.

Dave, I recently did my first lager at 13°C in 23l of wort. I stepped up to 2l in 3 steps and I regularly stirred by hand. It kicked off after 24h but took 3 weeks to finish, including temp raising. I'm guessing when yours gets going it'll probably take a long time to finish as well.

I'm going to invest in a stir plate before I do my next lager. Join my team. Beat impatience.

 

[mje1980]

Did you chill the yeast starter to pitching temp as well as the cube?.

 

[Dave70]

Did you chill the yeast starter to pitching temp as well as the cube?.

No.
No I didn't...

Wort was at 10, but the starter would have been more like 17 or there about.

Oops..

 

[mje1980]

Probably shocked the yeast. I make a big starter ( 3-4 litres of dependant ) then when it's done, whack it in the ferm fridge with the cube overnight. Then when I pitch, both starter and cube are at same temp. Done this the last few lagers, and they have been my best lagers by far.

It will more than likely turn out fine mate.

 

[mje1980]

With cold pitching, I find it does take 24 hours before you see any activity, but at such cold temps ( I pitch around 7c then let come up to 10 ) any bad bugs are slower to act, and you have a heap of good beer yeast ready to party like its 1.999

 

[Dave70]

I realy am a larger noob.
Still nothing, so I'll raise it to 12 and throw the air stone in for a bit and see if things get a little more roudy. if worst comes to worst, make a big angry starter and re pitch. No biggie.

In the mean time, I'll knock up and keg a few ALES..

 

[manticle]

Since you've underpitched I would be adding more yeast anyway.

I'm a 1 pack guy but I pitch the pack into 6-8 L and add the lot in when active.

 

[Red Baron]

This has been an informative thread. I've got an aussie lager currently in the fermenting fridge that I know I underpitched- I won't make that mistake again after reading everyone's methods.

Thanks,
RB

 

[anthonyUK]

I used a 'direct pitch' pack of 2278 recently. It was in date and was refrigerated in the shop.
It didn't swell which wasn't encouraging and took 4-5 days for any signs of fermentation @12°c.
The batch doesn't smell or taste like it will be usable but I'll give it a few more days before chucking it.
Gravity has hardly changed either :unsure:

 

[mje1980]

I realy am a larger noob.
Still nothing, so I'll raise it to 12 and throw the air stone in for a bit and see if things get a little more roudy. if worst comes to worst, make a big angry starter and re pitch. No biggie.

In the mean time, I'll knock up and keg a few ALES..

I don't brew many lagers, they take a long time to do right, any wrong flavours stand out, and really, I'm more of an ale man. However I do like to brew them now and again. They are a challenge to get right ( not that I've got my ales perfect or anything ). Apart from ferm temp, I've found when it comes to yeast, pitch lots, and pitch it cold. This has made the biggest difference for me, and I'm quite happy with my lagers now.

You can always use wyeast 1007 at 12-15c for a very nice pseudo lager.