House Infection?

[outbreak]

Don't wipe with a chux.... Either bleach and rinse with hot water then idophor or starsan. You could be getting parts of the chux left behind or something.

Is the cooled boiled water covered? How long did you boil it for?

Clean with Sodium Precarbonate, rinse, then sanitize starsan or idophor. I never have any issues with infection and as I've said above I cringe at the thought of all the crap floating around my kitchen.

Not sure why you take the airlock out if you had it filled with vodka.... Ditch the airlock and do a search for gladwrap.

 

[Peteoz77]

Oh well, I'll throw this out again and get flamed by the boiling water and/or Bleach users, but I have a thick hide.

I have been brewing for about 4 years now. I have never had an infected fermenter, but I have had infected bottles. I clocked these up a poor sanitiser that I was using. I dont' really remember what it was, as I threw it away the day I first tried Star San. Star Sn costs a few bucks, but it lasts forever.. and I mean a REALLY long time. 1 oz makes 19 litres of sanitising solution, and 32 ounces costs $35, so about a dollar to make a full keg of sanitiser. this lasts me MANY brews I have only used like 1/2 of my bottle of Star San and I have brewed thousands of litres of beer.

OK, so here's where it gets hairy. I NEVER use any detergents in my fermenters. maybe once a year I do a soak with boiling water, but only to activate some PBW to dissolve Beer Stone in them. when I finish a batch, I use the hose and a scotchbrite pad and get it looking spotless, but no soaps or cleansers. I dry them out and put the lids on and leave them until it's time to use them. When I need to use them, I spray the tap, sediment reducer and the tap hole in the fermenter with star san solution, screw the tap in, then put maybe 100-150ml of star san solution in the fermenter, put the lid on an swirl it all around, so all parts inside the fermenter get splashed. That it. Never done anything else, it's cheap, it's instant, and it's foolproof. Why use bleach and hot water and wait.. then rinse (with non sanitised water..... um ok) to get rid of the bleach? Trust me, the .001 of star san used (cheaper than bleach) is a better sanitiser, and it's NO rinse. If you leave it all in the fermenter, it actually acts as a yeast nutrient and has NO flavour. But I do pour out the excess.

A simple quick spray and about 30 seconds, and EVERYTHING is dead on spoons, thermometers, cups etc. Seriously it kills all bacteria within a few seconds, but is 100% safe and doesn't need to be rinsed. I really cannot think of any reason that anyone would use anything else. Just buy some and use it... you will never look back.

OK, so every once in a while, the water hose won't get all the crap out of a used keg, so I use a small bit of Napi San, rinse it well and use star san. The process I covered for fermenters is almost exacly the same for kegs. When empty, I clean with the garden hose and rinse well )including down the beer out tube). THen i add 100- 150 ml of star san solution, put the cap on, add C02 and shake it to cover everything inside, then run the sanitiser out the beer out tube, leaving C02 in the keg. I leave these for months, and when I need use one, I know it sanitised and full of C02.I just release the pressure, take the top off and fill with beer.

Star San. Get some Never ever worry about an infection again as long as you get it wet and leave it for a minute or two. No more bleach to rinse off ( with non sanitised water) no more water to boil and hopefully not burn yourself with, and no more infections.

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=933

OK, flame suit on.

 

[outbreak]

Oh well, I'll throw this out again and get flamed by the boiling water and/or Bleach users, but I have a thick hide.

I have been brewing for about 4 years now. I have never had an infected fermenter, but I have had infected bottles. I clocked these up a poor sanitiser that I was using. I dont' really remember what it was, as I threw it away the day I first tried Star San. Star Sn costs a few bucks, but it lasts forever.. and I mean a REALLY long time. 1 oz makes 19 litres of sanitising solution, and 32 ounces costs $35, so about a dollar to make a full keg of sanitiser. this lasts me MANY brews I have only used like 1/2 of my bottle of Star San and I have brewed thousands of litres of beer.

OK, so here's where it gets hairy. I NEVER use any detergents in my fermenters. maybe once a year I do a soak with boiling water, but only to activate some PBW to dissolve Beer Stone in them. when I finish a batch, I use the hose and a scotchbrite pad and get it looking spotless, but no soaps or cleansers. I dry them out and put the lids on and leave them until it's time to use them. When I need to use them, I spray the tap, sediment reducer and the tap hole in the fermenter with star san solution, screw the tap in, then put maybe 100-150ml of star san solution in the fermenter, put the lid on an swirl it all around, so all parts inside the fermenter get splashed. That it. Never done anything else, it's cheap, it's instant, and it's foolproof. Why use bleach and hot water and wait.. then rinse (with non sanitised water..... um ok) to get rid of the bleach? Trust me, the .001 of star san used (cheaper than bleach) is a better sanitiser, and it's NO rinse. If you leave it all in the fermenter, it actually acts as a yeast nutrient and has NO flavour. But I do pour out the excess.

A simple quick spray and about 30 seconds, and EVERYTHING is dead on spoons, thermometers, cups etc. Seriously it kills all bacteria within a few seconds, but is 100% safe and doesn't need to be rinsed. I really cannot think of any reason that anyone would use anything else. Just buy some and use it... you will never look back.

OK, so every once in a while, the water hose won't get all the crap out of a used keg, so I use a small bit of Napi San, rinse it well and use star san. The process I covered for fermenters is almost exacly the same for kegs. When empty, I clean with the garden hose and rinse well )including down the beer out tube). THen i add 100- 150 ml of star san solution, put the cap on, add C02 and shake it to cover everything inside, then run the sanitiser out the beer out tube, leaving C02 in the keg. I leave these for months, and when I need use one, I know it sanitised and full of C02.I just release the pressure, take the top off and fill with beer.

Star San. Get some Never ever worry about an infection again as long as you get it wet and leave it for a minute or two. No more bleach to rinse off ( with non sanitised water) no more water to boil and hopefully not burn yourself with, and no more infections.

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=933

OK, flame suit on.

+1

 

[Bizier]

You might brew a clean beer Pete, but that description gives me the heeby jeebies.

 

[kelbygreen]

if you think its a infection then use bleach and vinegar 10ml of each to 5lts of water. I would fill fermenter take tap apart and throw all brewing into the fermenter leave it for 30mins (they say 30secs-2mins is enough but if you fear infection do it longer. Rinse well till you cant smell the bleach usually 3-4 times. Then if you are really paranoid buy some starsan and use that as a final no rinse if you fear your tap water may be the problem.

If any one should get a infection from tap water it should be me my laundry tap I gotto run for 10 secs as it comes out rusty to begin with. Also I got a bit of old hose attached to the tap so that prob has some horrible stuff in it lol I usually boil 13lts out of the 21lts that goes into the fermenter as I do 13lt extract boils. My shed is also about 60+ years old and nothing in there is clean lol, My brews after they are boiled the pot gets glad wraped and sits on the bbq till the next day when I put it into the fermenter.

I have not had a infection yet well maybe once but I forgot to turn my temp control on and it was at 30c for about 36hours so it could of been the heat.

 

[chromakey]

Vitalstatistix, the beer I tasted from the fermenter when I was doing hydro readings

Bizier, I have read How to Brew, and I am reading it again tonight because it simply can't hurt (and there isnt much on tv anyway)

outbreak, the chux was used initially to wipe off the thick gunk, and then another clean was done again after that. But i will take your advice and not use one. The water was covered, and it was boiled for about 10 mins. I plan on using gladwrap next time.

HoppingMad, thanks for your advice. The fermenter sits under the sink of a bathroom that never ge6ts used. The temp stays very consistent in there, and the window is covered. The fermenter is always covered with a towel.

Peteoz77, cheers for the detailed reply. Starsan will be getting purchased tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for their input.

I plan on giving everything another huge clean with sodium percarbonate this time. Followed by a good rinse in some boiling hot water. Then a good soak in some starsan to complete the job. Hopefully that will get me on the right path.

 

[fergi]

looking at your cleaning/sanitising regime ,your brewing method etc i cant see anything in there that would not give you a nice sanitised product, all the advice you have been given is sound advice but to be honest i dont think it is any better than you have been doing,i know you tried your mates fermenter but did you use everything of his,fermenter/airlock/seals /tap/stirring spoon,also as someone suggested try brewing a brew at your mates place, it could be something like a contaminated airlock,seal,mixing spoon,tap.you will have to try a complete new outfit, i know money is money but i would go to your local brew shop and get a new fermenter,seal,tap,airlock,mixing spoon,one more thing do you have your evaperative ducted aircond going while mixing up your brew,i turn mine off for the 30 mins or so that my wort is exposed, i am sure the couple of infections i had could have been caused by the air blowing around from the aircon, maybe maybe not but its just what i do ,havent had an infection since.
fergi

 

[Aus_Rider_22]

star san solution in the fermenter, put the lid on an swirl it all around, so all parts inside the fermenter get splashed. That it. Never done anything else, it's cheap, it's instant, and it's foolproof. Why use bleach and hot water and wait.. then rinse (with non sanitised water..... um ok) to get rid of the bleach? Trust me, the .001 of star san used (cheaper than bleach) is a better sanitiser, and it's NO rinse.

A simple quick spray and about 30 seconds, and EVERYTHING is dead on spoons, thermometers, cups etc. Seriously it kills all bacteria within a few seconds, but is 100% safe and doesn't need to be rinsed. I really cannot think of any reason that anyone would use anything else. Just buy some and use it... you will never look back.

Use a very similar process.

I cant recommend StarSan enough. Mix up the correct ratio, let everything come into contact for a few minutes and it should be fine!

 

[chromakey]

Hi Fergi,

When I did the brew using my mates gear, everything was new. Not one thing from a previous brew was used in this one, except of course for the house, and myself. Even the cleaning and sanitising products were different.

Also, I don't have any air con or ducted heating.

Cheers
Brett

 

[np1962]

if you think its a infection then use bleach and vinegar 10ml of each to 5lts of water. I would fill fermenter take tap apart and throw all brewing into the fermenter leave it for 30mins (they say 30secs-2mins is enough but if you fear infection do it longer. Rinse well till you cant smell the bleach usually 3-4 times. Then if you are really paranoid buy some starsan and use that as a final no rinse if you fear your tap water may be the problem.

If any one should get a infection from tap water it should be me my laundry tap I gotto run for 10 secs as it comes out rusty to begin with. Also I got a bit of old hose attached to the tap so that prob has some horrible stuff in it lol I usually boil 13lts out of the 21lts that goes into the fermenter as I do 13lt extract boils. My shed is also about 60+ years old and nothing in there is clean lol, My brews after they are boiled the pot gets glad wraped and sits on the bbq till the next day when I put it into the fermenter.

I have not had a infection yet well maybe once but I forgot to turn my temp control on and it was at 30c for about 36hours so it could of been the heat.

1oz bleach, 1oz vinegar, 5 Gallons Water = NO RINSE Sanitiser (1.6ml bleach, 1.6ml vinegar, 1 litre water)
Charlie Tally, founder 5star chemicals, makers of starsan, Basic Brewing Radio, 29/03/2007.

Something many brewers do wrong is mix their sanitiser wrong. Always follow the instructions and don't mix the solution stronger than recommended. If you do you no longer have a no rinse sanitiser and risk harming your yeast and leaving your beer with a strange taste if you don't rinse.
More is not necessarily better!

Cheers
Nige

 

[Nevalicious]

1oz bleach, 1oz vinegar, 5 Gallons Water = NO RINSE Sanitiser (1.6ml bleach, 1.6ml vinegar, 1 litre water)
Charlie Tally, founder 5star chemicals, makers of starsan, Basic Brewing Radio, 29/03/2007.

Something many brewers do wrong is mix their sanitiser wrong. Always follow the instructions and don't mix the solution stronger than recommended. If you do you no longer have a no rinse sanitiser and risk harming your yeast and leaving your beer with a strange taste if you don't rinse.
More is not necessarily better!

Cheers
Nige

Interesting Nige... Do you or have you ever used that mix as a replacement for StarSan??

 

[bum]

Chromakey, do you happen to get a heap of those little vinegar flies around you place? Not sure what the real name for them is. They're supposed to give you infections if you even mention them near a brew.

Unless you're missing a detail somewhere in your description your process seems sound enough (room for improvement but I'm sure most of us are the same). It is time to start looking to your environment, IMO.

 

[Nevalicious]

little vinegar flies

Like garbage bugs... I dunno the name either... I call them little garbage bugs, always seem to be near the bin...

 

[felten]

Interesting Nige... Do you or have you ever used that mix as a replacement for StarSan??

Starsan is phosphoric based, it also has a anionic surfactant, so bleach isn't a direct replacement.

Bleach is very volatile and has a limited shelf life, probably over a few years you'll get pretty significant reduction in the active component, I think Charlie talks about that specifically in the BN podcast.

 

[np1962]

Interesting Nige... Do you or have you ever used that mix as a replacement for StarSan??

Nev,
This is a major part of my sanitation regime, have been using it for nearly two years.

Starsan is phosphoric based, it also has a anionic surfactant, so bleach isn't a direct replacement.

Bleach is very volatile and has a limited shelf life, probably over a few years you'll get pretty significant reduction in the active component, I think Charlie talks about that specifically in the BN podcast.

As Charlie said in the podcast, Starsan only came into being as a response to the success of iodophors in the dairy industry.
May not be a direct replacement but if used correctly can be used with success. If the bleach shows any signs of cloudiness then discard and get a new bottle. Mix up as much solution as needed on the day and discard at the end of the day, does not stay active for any length of time.

Apologies to the OP for the OT.
Cheers
Nige

 

[Yeastie Beastie]

also the germ-poisons in your sanitiser)

Be sure to disassemble all parts of taps, lids, airlocks and whatever else.

IMO
Lose the airlock and lid by using cling wrap.
Lose the tap - bacteria funpark. After fermentation syphon to a bottling bucket with sanitized tap and bulk prime.

 

[unrealeous]

Lose the tap - bacteria funpark.

Or invest in a pressure cooker - Even if you can't get something (like a tap) looking 'clean' - after 15 minutes at 121C all forms of life are rendered lifeless.

I chuck everything I can fit in it - taps, valves, rubber seals, starter vessels, corny kegs fittings, transfer hoses etc.

 

[chromakey]

Chromakey, do you happen to get a heap of those little vinegar flies around you place? Not sure what the real name for them is. They're supposed to give you infections if you even mention them near a brew.

Unless you're missing a detail somewhere in your description your process seems sound enough (room for improvement but I'm sure most of us are the same). It is time to start looking to your environment, IMO.

I actually don't really see flies of any description at my place. The odd blow fly on the balcony when I am cooking a BBQ but thats about it.

 

[Pennywise]

Oh well, I'll throw this out again and get flamed by the boiling water and/or Bleach users, but I have a thick hide.

I have been brewing for about 4 years now. I have never had an infected fermenter, but I have had infected bottles. I clocked these up a poor sanitiser that I was using. I dont' really remember what it was, as I threw it away the day I first tried Star San. Star Sn costs a few bucks, but it lasts forever.. and I mean a REALLY long time. 1 oz makes 19 litres of sanitising solution, and 32 ounces costs $35, so about a dollar to make a full keg of sanitiser. this lasts me MANY brews I have only used like 1/2 of my bottle of Star San and I have brewed thousands of litres of beer.

OK, so here's where it gets hairy. I NEVER use any detergents in my fermenters. maybe once a year I do a soak with boiling water, but only to activate some PBW to dissolve Beer Stone in them. when I finish a batch, I use the hose and a scotchbrite pad and get it looking spotless, but no soaps or cleansers. I dry them out and put the lids on and leave them until it's time to use them. When I need to use them, I spray the tap, sediment reducer and the tap hole in the fermenter with star san solution, screw the tap in, then put maybe 100-150ml of star san solution in the fermenter, put the lid on an swirl it all around, so all parts inside the fermenter get splashed. That it. Never done anything else, it's cheap, it's instant, and it's foolproof. Why use bleach and hot water and wait.. then rinse (with non sanitised water..... um ok) to get rid of the bleach? Trust me, the .001 of star san used (cheaper than bleach) is a better sanitiser, and it's NO rinse. If you leave it all in the fermenter, it actually acts as a yeast nutrient and has NO flavour. But I do pour out the excess.

A simple quick spray and about 30 seconds, and EVERYTHING is dead on spoons, thermometers, cups etc. Seriously it kills all bacteria within a few seconds, but is 100% safe and doesn't need to be rinsed. I really cannot think of any reason that anyone would use anything else. Just buy some and use it... you will never look back.

OK, so every once in a while, the water hose won't get all the crap out of a used keg, so I use a small bit of Napi San, rinse it well and use star san. The process I covered for fermenters is almost exacly the same for kegs. When empty, I clean with the garden hose and rinse well )including down the beer out tube). THen i add 100- 150 ml of star san solution, put the cap on, add C02 and shake it to cover everything inside, then run the sanitiser out the beer out tube, leaving C02 in the keg. I leave these for months, and when I need use one, I know it sanitised and full of C02.I just release the pressure, take the top off and fill with beer.

Star San. Get some Never ever worry about an infection again as long as you get it wet and leave it for a minute or two. No more bleach to rinse off ( with non sanitised water) no more water to boil and hopefully not burn yourself with, and no more infections.

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=933

OK, flame suit on.

Why? I can't see anything wrong with your process, it basically how I've been doing it for 3 odd years, no fermenter infections

 

[pcmfisher]

Oh well, I'll throw this out again and get flamed by the boiling water and/or Bleach users, but I have a thick hide.

I have been brewing for about 4 years now. I have never had an infected fermenter, but I have had infected bottles. I clocked these up a poor sanitiser that I was using. I dont' really remember what it was, as I threw it away the day I first tried Star San. Star Sn costs a few bucks, but it lasts forever.. and I mean a REALLY long time. 1 oz makes 19 litres of sanitising solution, and 32 ounces costs $35, so about a dollar to make a full keg of sanitiser. this lasts me MANY brews I have only used like 1/2 of my bottle of Star San and I have brewed thousands of litres of beer.

OK, so here's where it gets hairy. I NEVER use any detergents in my fermenters. maybe once a year I do a soak with boiling water, but only to activate some PBW to dissolve Beer Stone in them. when I finish a batch, I use the hose and a scotchbrite pad and get it looking spotless, but no soaps or cleansers. I dry them out and put the lids on and leave them until it's time to use them. When I need to use them, I spray the tap, sediment reducer and the tap hole in the fermenter with star san solution, screw the tap in, then put maybe 100-150ml of star san solution in the fermenter, put the lid on an swirl it all around, so all parts inside the fermenter get splashed. That it. Never done anything else, it's cheap, it's instant, and it's foolproof. Why use bleach and hot water and wait.. then rinse (with non sanitised water..... um ok) to get rid of the bleach? Trust me, the .001 of star san used (cheaper than bleach) is a better sanitiser, and it's NO rinse. If you leave it all in the fermenter, it actually acts as a yeast nutrient and has NO flavour. But I do pour out the excess.

A simple quick spray and about 30 seconds, and EVERYTHING is dead on spoons, thermometers, cups etc. Seriously it kills all bacteria within a few seconds, but is 100% safe and doesn't need to be rinsed. I really cannot think of any reason that anyone would use anything else. Just buy some and use it... you will never look back.

OK, so every once in a while, the water hose won't get all the crap out of a used keg, so I use a small bit of Napi San, rinse it well and use star san. The process I covered for fermenters is almost exacly the same for kegs. When empty, I clean with the garden hose and rinse well )including down the beer out tube). THen i add 100- 150 ml of star san solution, put the cap on, add C02 and shake it to cover everything inside, then run the sanitiser out the beer out tube, leaving C02 in the keg. I leave these for months, and when I need use one, I know it sanitised and full of C02.I just release the pressure, take the top off and fill with beer.

Star San. Get some Never ever worry about an infection again as long as you get it wet and leave it for a minute or two. No more bleach to rinse off ( with non sanitised water) no more water to boil and hopefully not burn yourself with, and no more infections.

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=933

OK, flame suit on.

Why? I can't see anything wrong with your process, it basically how I've been doing it for 3 odd years, no fermenter infections

Probably the use of the scotchbrite pad I would say..