Hops and schedule check please, better way for max. fruit?

[Ninegrain]

Hi everyone!

First I need to say, what a great forum! I have learnt so much from lurking here for a while and here goes, my first post.

This is my first time doing a boil and hop additions and I am asking if you can check my hops and schedule to see if I will be maximising the flavour and aroma of them with the following timings. I am planning on putting down a Pale Ale on the weekend and the following is my brew schedule so far after playing around with the spreadsheet. I am after a very fruity brew, with loads of passionfruit and other tropical flavours.

Ingredients:

1.7kg Coopers APA Kit
1kg LDME
0.5kg Wheat dry Malt


10L boil with required LDME to bring to 1040

5g Citra (13.5% AA) @ 20 mins
5g Galaxy (13.8% AA) @ 20 mins

5g Citra (13.5% AA) @ 10 mins
5g Galaxy (13.8% AA) @ 10 mins
5g Nelson Sauvin (12.5% AA) @ 10mins

5g Citra (13.5% AA) @ flame-out
5g Galaxy (13.8% AA) @ flame-out
5g Nelson Sauvin (12.5% AA) @ flame-out

*All hops are pelleted


It will be pitched onto a US05 cake, that will have an American Pale Ale bottled off it once the wort has cooled, and then made to 23L.

Ferment will be Temp controlled at 18'C (Or suggestions otherwise?)

Estimates from the spreadsheet are as follows:

OG 1047
FG 1012
IBU 35.4
EBC 8.1
ABV (Bottle) 5%

My main concerns are:

• Wasting hop flavours/aroma during the ferment. Should I do the flame-out additions and also dry hop? Or no flame-out additions and dry hop at say 7g or more of each? Any other combos or timings you could suggest, with reasoning? I don't mind a bit of bitterness but the missus doesn't so that's why I have opted for the short boil and will rely mostly on the pre bittering of the coopers tin. I'm hoping to compensate for some of the bitterness if it comes through by the malty goodness and a big fruit hit so that she will enjoy it too.
• Is there is a better way to maximise the flavour and aroma of these hops whilst minimising the bitterness additions?

Cheers folks!

 

[Yob]

All looks good except the pitching onto a full cake, its a hell of an overpitch.

Many people just take a cup or so of the slurry, rinse/clean FV and pitch the slurry.

Overpitching can affect the flavour of the beer as the yeast wont develop the ester profile thats intended for the yeast..

Others pitch onto the cake and dont report issues.. personally I never did a whole cake and rinsed the yeast.

A Citra Dry hop late will also add back aroma thats driven off during the ferment and maximise the 'nose'

 

[Ninegrain]

Cheers Yob. Yeah good point on the cake, hadn't thought of that as being a problem. I am planning on starting a yeast washing system but don't have jars nor time to get any ATM. Would simply pitching a cup of fresh cake still be ok or should I wait until I can put the effort in to wash it first?


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[Yob]

Ive never just pitched the slurry directly, people report no issues from doing so though so you should be ok..

Its a bit of a hit and miss method to my mind though as you dont get an accurate idea of the healthy yeast V's amount of dead cells / trub in there... hence why I always rinsed..

it does take time though so if you are wanting to get in down pretty quickly this could be a factor for you. At the end of the day, you need to choose how anal you want to be about it.

I think it was Old Nick, who often quoted one cup of slurry for ales and 2 cups of slurry for Lagers. Dont hold me to anything he said to be gospel though... We disagreed on a great many things...

feking coffee grinders for one but I digress...

Cheers

 

[dougsbrew]

FWIW, I pitch ontop of full us05 yeast cake frequently, and taste no side effects of doing so.
Ferment starts within 1 to 2 hours, sometimes less and usually finishes a day or 2 early.
Just keep temp low early to try and prevent the yeast climbing out of the airlock.
As far as your hopping, you mentioned you don't want too bitter for the missus,
I would dump the 20 min addition with those high alpha hops and chill your
pot in the sink straight after the boil to get below isomerisation quickly. Cheers.

 

[Mardoo]

I would dump the 20 min addition with those high alpha hops and chill your
pot in the sink straight after the boil to get below isomerisation quickly. Cheers.

Would you add the 10g from the 20 minute addition to the flameout addition in that case?

 

[verysupple]

I am planning on starting a yeast washing system but don't have jars nor time to get any ATM. Would simply pitching a cup of fresh cake still be ok or should I wait until I can put the effort in to wash it first?

I've done this. As Yob said, it's not ideal but I was in your situation and didn't have the necessary time or equipment to rinse the yeast. If you use the slurry tab on Mr.Malty and leave the settings on the defaults it should get you in the ball park for the right amount of yeast taking into account the fact that not all the yeast is viable and some volume will be trub.

 

[Ninegrain]

Would you add the 10g from the 20 minute addition to the flameout addition in that case?


I was just about to ask that good question


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[user 31093]

Would you add the 10g from the 20 minute addition to the flameout addition in that case?

Have you thought of steeping some galaxy for 30 minutes at about 60-70 degrees? I've made a very fruity ale where the only hops I added was 15g galaxy steeped this way and the hop bag added to the fermenter.

 

[Ninegrain]

So I changed my initial recipe to the following and today its day 13 in the FV. All things going well I plan to bottle it tomorrow.

Extracts are the same, I just changed the hop schedule to

10g Citra
6g Galaxy
5g Nelson Sauvin

all @ 10 min

5g of each @ flameout

I also ended up using the kit coopers yeast because the US05 was very dirty with hop debris from the last batch and I felt a bit suss throwing that into this one. I have my jars now though, so next time I use a good yeast I will start washing. I had intended to do a dry hop addition but time just got away from me.

Today I took a gravity reading and the aroma and taste is excellent! Fruity with a nice bitter hit that should mellow nicely to the missus' tastes. While the aroma is great, I can only imagine what it would of been with the dry addition :\

I plan on doing a similar batch, after the Hefeweizen I have planned next has completed, but will do all extract this time with the same three hops.

 

[user 31093]

So I changed my initial recipe to the following and today its day 13 in the FV. All things going well I plan to bottle it tomorrow.

Extracts are the same, I just changed the hop schedule to

10g Citra
6g Galaxy
5g Nelson Sauvin

all @ 10 min

5g of each @ flameout

I also ended up using the kit coopers yeast because the US05 was very dirty with hop debris from the last batch and I felt a bit suss throwing that into this one. I have my jars now though, so next time I use a good yeast I will start washing. I had intended to do a dry hop addition but time just got away from me.

Today I took a gravity reading and the aroma and taste is excellent! Fruity with a nice bitter hit that should mellow nicely to the missus' tastes. While the aroma is great, I can only imagine what it would of been with the dry addition :\

I plan on doing a similar batch, after the Hefeweizen I have planned next has completed, but will do all extract this time with the same three hops.

Dry hop some citra and galaxy.

 

[Ninegrain]

Yeah I know I should of done. But is it too late at 2 weeks? Or could dry hopping and then crash chilling it for a week improve it further? I don't really want to have to bother with racking to secondary so how long do you estimate would be enough for the hops to drop out?


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[rheffera]

It's not too late. Dry hop it and leave it for4 days minimum

 

[Dan Pratt]

The hops will swell and then drop out if you set the temp of teh fridge to 4c or if you like just add them and drop to 12c and then a day later 4c and leave that for 2 days and all the hops will be at the bottom and she should be ready for packaging. :beerbang:

 

[user 31093]

The hops will swell and then drop out if you set the temp of teh fridge to 4c or if you like just add them and drop to 12c and then a day later 4c and leave that for 2 days and all the hops will be at the bottom and she should be ready for packaging. :beerbang:

^ This.

My IPA is at day 6 and fermented out, I'm gonna dry hop today for 5 days before cold crashing 2 days

 

[Ninegrain]

Done! 10g each of Citra and Galaxy and its now dropping to 16'c. Mmmm cant wait :chug: