Hop schedule for light lager... help?

[rockeye84]

Hi all,

1st post..

Been ag brewing for a few years now. Ive got pale ale & pils down pretty well i think. Well my mates seem to like them, even the few beer snobs among them.

Just really struggling with brewing a light lager for my few beer snob mates. Ive tried a few times, they either come out way too malty, or too hoppy.

Ive tried a single 60min addition only to about 20ibu down to a fg of 1008. Still too malty... then tried 60min + 15 and 60min + 5 min additions on different beers to about 15 ibu @ fg of 1008 also. Just seems to have too much hop presence and or still a strong maltyness..

Ive probably had about 6 or goes. Had a couple that were ok & a couple that ive dumped, they wern't undrinkable, when I have a beer i like to actually enjoy & savour it, not just get magit, I just can seem to get it spot on nor find any good info on the net..

I think ive got my grain bill right just not getting the hop/malt balance or the hop schedule right.

Heres my latest recepie im working on, I open to any suggestions.. I did have some carapils/dextrine malt in this one for a bit of head retention, but read somewhere its seldom used in this style??

Im using Rims/herms. Ive attatched a pic below..


Type: All Grain Date: 12/08/2012
Batch Size (fermenter): 42.00 l Brewer: Rocki Dobra
Boil Size: 45.57 l Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: 50L ELECTRIC RIMS
End of Boil Volume 43.68 l Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 42.00 l Est Mash Efficiency 75.0 %
Fermentation: Lager, Three Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:

Ingredients
Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
60.00 l Distilled Water Water 1 -
6.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
6.00 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
4.00 g Chalk (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 4 -
2.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 5 -
3.30 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (3.2 EBC) Grain 6 53.9 %
2.20 kg Corn, Flaked (2.6 EBC) Grain 7 35.9 %
0.50 kg Vienna Malt (9.0 EBC) Grain 8 8.2 %
0.12 kg Acid Malt (3.6 EBC) Grain 9 2.0 %
35.00 g Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.30 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 10 5.8 IBUs
20.00 g Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.30 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 11 2.5 IBUs
2.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 12 -
1.0 pkg Danish Lager (Wyeast Labs #2042) [124.21 ml] Yeast 13 -

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.034 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.034 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.006 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.006 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 3.6 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 3.7 %
Bitterness: 8.3 IBUs Calories: 308.8 kcal/l
Est Color: 4.9 EBC

Mash Profile
Mash Name: Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Light Body Total Grain Weight: 6.12 kg
Sparge Water: 35.74 l Grain Temperature: 22.2 C
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C Tun Temperature: 22.2 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.40
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Protein Rest Add 21.96 l of water at 52.9 C 50.0 C 30 min
Saccharification Add 0.00 l of water and heat to 64.0 C over 15 min 64.0 C 75 min
Mash Out Heat to 75.6 C over 10 min 75.6 C 10 min
Sparge Step: Fly sparge with 35.74 l water at 75.6 C
Mash Notes: Two step profile with a protein rest for mashes with unmodified grains or adjuncts. Temperature mash for use when mashing in a brew pot over a heat source such as the stove. Use heat to maintain desired temperature during the mash.

Carbonation and Storage
Carbonation Type: Keg Volumes of CO2: 2.5
Pressure/Weight: 10.02 PSI Carbonation Used: Keg with 10.02 PSI
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 2.0 C Age for: 30.00 days
Fermentation: Lager, Three Stage Storage Temperature: 17.0 C

 

[manticle]

Get rid of the chalk for starters. You really don't want that in a pale beer. Even the gypsum will push your hops and if it is too hoppy, you might want to consider getting pH right with acid and using only enough calcium salts to get calcium to minimum required levels. Drop magnesium salts and balance the chloride/sulphate ratio.

Also look at using single bittering addition only and drop out the Vienna malt.

 

[Darkman]

Hi all,

1st post..

Been ag brewing for a few years now. Ive got pale ale & pils down pretty well i think. Well my mates seem to like them, even the few beer snobs among them.

Just really struggling with brewing a light lager for my few beer snob mates. Ive tried a few times, they either come out way too malty, or too hoppy.

Ive tried a single 60min addition only to about 20ibu down to a fg of 1008. Still too malty... then tried 60min + 15 and 60min + 5 min additions on different beers to about 15 ibu @ fg of 1008 also. Just seems to have too much hop presence and or still a strong maltyness..

Ive probably had about 6 or goes. Had a couple that were ok & a couple that ive dumped, they wern't undrinkable, when I have a beer i like to actually enjoy & savour it, not just get magit, I just can seem to get it spot on nor find any good info on the net..

I think ive got my grain bill right just not getting the hop/malt balance or the hop schedule right.

Heres my latest recepie im working on, I open to any suggestions.. I did have some carapils/dextrine malt in this one for a bit of head retention, but read somewhere its seldom used in this style??

Im using Rims/herms. Ive attatched a pic below..


Type: All Grain Date: 12/08/2012
Batch Size (fermenter): 42.00 l Brewer: Rocki Dobra
Boil Size: 45.57 l Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: 50L ELECTRIC RIMS
End of Boil Volume 43.68 l Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 42.00 l Est Mash Efficiency 75.0 %
Fermentation: Lager, Three Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:

Ingredients
Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
60.00 l Distilled Water Water 1 -
6.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
6.00 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
4.00 g Chalk (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 4 -
2.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 5 -
3.30 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (3.2 EBC) Grain 6 53.9 %
2.20 kg Corn, Flaked (2.6 EBC) Grain 7 35.9 %
0.50 kg Vienna Malt (9.0 EBC) Grain 8 8.2 %
0.12 kg Acid Malt (3.6 EBC) Grain 9 2.0 %
35.00 g Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.30 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 10 5.8 IBUs
20.00 g Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.30 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 11 2.5 IBUs
2.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 12 -
1.0 pkg Danish Lager (Wyeast Labs #2042) [124.21 ml] Yeast 13 -

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.034 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.034 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.006 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.006 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 3.6 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 3.7 %
Bitterness: 8.3 IBUs Calories: 308.8 kcal/l
Est Color: 4.9 EBC

Mash Profile
Mash Name: Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Light Body Total Grain Weight: 6.12 kg
Sparge Water: 35.74 l Grain Temperature: 22.2 C
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C Tun Temperature: 22.2 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.40
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Protein Rest Add 21.96 l of water at 52.9 C 50.0 C 30 min
Saccharification Add 0.00 l of water and heat to 64.0 C over 15 min 64.0 C 75 min
Mash Out Heat to 75.6 C over 10 min 75.6 C 10 min
Sparge Step: Fly sparge with 35.74 l water at 75.6 C
Mash Notes: Two step profile with a protein rest for mashes with unmodified grains or adjuncts. Temperature mash for use when mashing in a brew pot over a heat source such as the stove. Use heat to maintain desired temperature during the mash.

Carbonation and Storage
Carbonation Type: Keg Volumes of CO2: 2.5
Pressure/Weight: 10.02 PSI Carbonation Used: Keg with 10.02 PSI
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 2.0 C Age for: 30.00 days
Fermentation: Lager, Three Stage Storage Temperature: 17.0 C

That's a fair bit of corn you have in you're recipe. Could the maltly/sweet taste be coming from the corn?
Have you considered switching the corn for rice? this may eliminate the sweetness you're picking up.
I also wouldn't be using the chalk in your beer either.

 

[Stuwort]

Hey Rock,

I brew extract only at this stage, but my last one was brewed for my mates in a Blonde style, but using lager yeasties (S23), 7% wheat, bittered with Cluster and late additions of Styrian Goldings. Very pleasant, easy drinking beer.

 

[newguy]

Simplify and drop the minerals as has been suggested. Minerals, particularly the ones you're using, can turn the beer harsh in terms of bitterness. Acid for mash pH to ensure you're not hardening the water and making the hop character harsh.

I'd suggest mash hopping to enhance the overall late hop softness but not sacrifice aroma. Shoot for 25-30 IBU with 15-20 of that from the bittering addition.

 

[tcc]

just to clarify are you actually using distilled water?

 

[rockeye84]

nah rain water, i should add it into beersmith. too lazy lol

 

[rockeye84]

in response to

newguy
As for mineral additions, now adding 6g CaSO4 & 7g CaCl2 which gives Ca= 56ppm Cl & SO4 Balanced both at 58ppm. Look ok for this style?

Not sure I want to go that bitter tho. Was shootin to the 10-12 ibu ball park.

Would it be a good idea to chuck some cara-pils/dextrine in for a bit of head & mouth feel?

Thanks

Rock

 

[newguy]

50's total ppm from rainwater sounds pretty good. At that level of total hardness, 20 IBUs would probably seem like 10. Honestly, the minerals were the thing that jumped out at me - they have one hell of an effect on perceived bitterness. Just ensure that you can accurately measure your additions down to the gram and you should be fine.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Try to keep your IBU:SG ratio the same as for a full strength beer. Light has always been a PITA to get right