Hop Availabilities, Breeding And The Future.

[nabs478]

G'day,

I was chatting to some fellow brewers recently, and someone, who is a professional brewer, was saying that the hop world is changing and certain varieties of hops will not be available soon, and other varieties are coming. He then started explain to me about hop sex, and how you can cross breed hops to try and acheive certain properties. This was all news to me! And came as a bit of a shock as he said two types that may well be heading out are Cacade and Amarillo...two of my favourites.

Can anyone explain to me why certain strains my not be available in coming years months? And which strains are on their way out, and which will be around in the future?

The other thing I would quite like to get going is a database of the hop faimly tree. It turns out, as it is explained to me, that many new hops are simple blends of other hops, like variety 'X' is 50% 'Y', 25% 'Z' and 25% miscellaneous or unknown. It would be good to see the relationship between different hop types. Can anyone make any input as to how different hops relate, and perhaps if enough information comes in we could save it all somewhere.

Let me know what you guys think/know?

Thanks

Pip

 

[braufrau]

well I don't know nuppin, but if its true about cascade then the more we plant in our backyards the better.
No one sells grosse lisse tomatoes anymore, which is a fantastic tomato, but there are plenty in people's backyards.
( Actually, I saw black russian tomatoes at the market the other day which was a bit of a surprise! )

And if it is true, maybe we should be "partnering" with organistations like the rare fruit society and seed savers (yeah I know they don't grow true from seed) to help save them.

 

[Frank]

This is one article that is on the net. A good start showing the breeding history of many UK varieties.

 

[bullya]

Check ebay I can't see a shortage of cascade any time in the near future.
Some people are having a whinge bout the price but they're coming down as the season wears on and what price do you put on having you're own supply for a couple of decades?

 

[Simon W]

I think the previous posters name says it all.
Can't see Cascade or Amarillo disappearing anytime soon. There are still some varieties around that, as far as I can tell, are hundreds of years old.
Maybe he(she?) meant the 'hop shortage' and not the eventual disuse of the varieties?

 

[bullya]

Nope sorry simon was referring more to braufraus comments i've got cascade in my back yard and ironically enough grosse lisse tomatoes as well

 

[jojai]

Thanks for the tip on ebay! I don't think hops will go extinct, did your friend provide any reason for it?

 

[bullya]

Didn't get mine off ebay some friends have a herb farm and clinic

 

[kabooby]

Not sure that is true,

Cascade grows like a weed in the US

 

[nabs478]

It was in a social discussion about different brewing topics, and I didnt want to keep hassling him about the most devastating news I had ever heard. He had mentioned that due to the hieghtened demand they were no longer available to him commercially, although the reason he gave didnt reall ymake sense to me. But I guess that may be all tied into the price of them as well. They may not be commercially viable to some brewies if the price is too high.

I meant to get some hops this year and start growing them, but was a bit busy with work around the right time and didnt organise in advance all the crap I would need. I am going to get in early for next season and get dinkum about growing some hops!

 

[nabs478]

Boston - Thanks for the article, I am half way through it.

I guess no one else cares about hop family trees?

 

[Batz]

Ever heard of heritage vegetable seeds?
We grow these rather than hybrid varieties,hops I suppose will go the same.I didn't even mention GM modified seed,don't get me started on that !

An old hippie?Yes and proud of it as well !

Batz

 

[mika]

Most reputable Hop suppliers will be able to provide you with all the Hop details which usually includes parentage and allows you to make 'assumptions' about the flavour profile.
I have heard that there are certain hop diseases in parts of Germany that are affecting the continuation of a couple of the noble strains, but that's mostly down to people not having found the solution, some people were doomsaying but I'm sure science (and a love of beer) will come to the rescue.
Recent economic factors which have been well documented have lead to the limited supply that we are currently experiencing and will continue to have an affect for at least the next 12 months according to the lastest that I've heard. After that most people seem to be of the opinion that it will be business as usual. Amarillo is apparently only grown by one farmer in America so can't vouch for it's longevity, but Cascade has always had a reputation as a good producer of hops, ie mass harvested for number of plants, so I don't see that being an issue. Perhaps one of the more Hop savvy people on the forum willl reply, but I wouldn't be concerned at this stage...there's always other hops.

 

[johnno]

...there's always

Spoiler

other

hops.

There better be. <_< Don't even want to think about life without hops.

Gruit anyone?

cheers
johnno

 

[schooey]

No one sells grosse lisse tomatoes anymore

They had them by the thousands at the local Bunnings here last year, and the two nurseries

 

[braufrau]

Without having been privy to the converstion, my interpretation was that commercially we may not be able to get cascade, goldings etc. because new varieties are being developed that have qualities, such as high alpha, that make them appealing to breweries, in the same way that an indestructible tomato is appealing to growers and retailers, so, even though we lament the fact that tomatoes are all tasteless these days, we can't buy them unless we're prepared to hunt for very specialist growers and pay a premium price.

Now I'm gonna read about hop lineages.

At the end of boston's link it says

"What about the future? I think we
will see more disease and pest resistant
dwarf varieties being bred and grown
even here in the United States, not only
because of economic reasons but also for
environmental demands. We shall see
what happens in ten years time. The
U.K. bred, first commercially grown
dwarf variety, First Gold will still be
around, I think, even here in Yakima
Valley."

 

[white.grant]

This is one article that is on the net. A good start showing the breeding history of many UK varieties.

Great link.

cheers

Grant

 

[Stuster]

Great link.

cheers

+1.

Especially like this quote.

in essence, all hop varieties have a specific aroma which is liked or disliked, i.e. hop aroma is very personal.
This is one of the reasons why there are so many different hop varieties.

 

[braufrau]

+1.

Especially like this quote.
in essence, all hop varieties have a specific aroma which is liked or disliked, i.e. hop aroma is very personal.
This is one of the reasons why there are so many different hop varieties.

yeah ... fuggles smells like dirt! And green bullet tastes like dish washing liquid. h34r:

 

[jbirbeck]

yeah ... fuggles smells like dirt! And green bullet tastes like dish washing liquid.

I won't have a bad word said about green bullet, I love it...or maybe I just like dishwashing liquid :unsure: Mind you I'm not all that fond of cascade, definitely better hops around.