Hop Additions - Potential Schedules & Resulting Beer Profiles?

[piraterum]

I'm quite new to the world of hops schedules and was wondering how best to determine an appropriate hop schedule for a particular type of beer.

From what I have gathered
1. 60min boil is good for bittering
2. Late additions (20-0min) additions are good for flavouring/aroma,
3. Dry hopping is good for aroma.

There are a couple of good links on the topic:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...+schedule\

http://www.brewsupplies.com/hop_characteristics.htm


I'm looking to make a pilsner with an IBU around 35.

I'm toying up what would be an appropriate hop schedule to give an appropriate flavour and aroma. Using the charts from the link above and the reciper maker in Beersmith i'm thinking..

27g 7.60% AA Northern Brewer (60min) - bittering
30g 4.0%AA Saaz (40min) - bittering
30g 4.0%AA Saaz (20min) - flavour
15g 4.0%AA Saaz (7min) - aroma

Batch size = 22L
Boil size = 7.85L
Boil Time = 60min
Brewhouse efficiency = 65%
Est OG = 1.052
Est FG = 1.013
Est Colour = 11.6 EBC
Est IBU = 35.3
Bitterness ratio = 0.684 IBU/SG

Reckon this schedule is appropriate for a pils? Should I add more to flavour and aroma additions?

It would be good if there was a scale for hop flavour & hop aroma contributed calculated for each type of hop

 

[Steve]

Drop the NB and go the saaaaaaz all the way :icon_drool2: with three additions, 60, 15 and 0 mins

 

[piraterum]

Drop the NB and go the saaaaaaz all the way :icon_drool2: with three additions, 60, 15 and 0 mins

I've always wondered about bittering hops.....given most of the flavour is boiled way during the 60 min boil, does it really matter what bittering hop you use?

Say what would be the difference between using NB or Saaz as the bittering hop? Other than NB has a higher AA% so you use less hops ie cost factor

 

[BoilerBoy]

I've always wondered about bittering hops.....given most of the flavour is boiled way during the 60 min boil, does it really matter what bittering hop you use?

Say what would be the difference between using NB or Saaz as the bittering hop? Other than NB has a higher AA% so you use less hops ie cost factor

IMHO bittering additions are not devoid of any flavour, they still leave an imprint, its just that you don't get the full hop flavour impact as you would from a 20 min addition.

I agree with the others for a Bo pils Saaz all the way!

Cheers,
BB

 

[Steve]

IMHO bittering additions are not devoid of any flavour, they still leave an imprint, its just that you don't get the full hop flavour impact as you would from a 20 min addition.

+1 what he said

 

[PostModern]

Most beers I make these days, I just use two additions, bittering at 60 mins and one combined flavour/aroma addition at flameout. Of course for an IIPA or something like that, I might do a hop-burst style and just keep throwing them in there for the last 20 mins as well as a big addition at the end. In my mind, a single 20 min addition is just an inefficient bittering addition. (Flame suit on).

 

[barry2]

. In my mind, a single 20 min addition is just an inefficient bittering addition. (Flame suit on).
[/quote

I agree

 

[Steve]

Learn something new everyday! What about a 15, 10 min addition?
Cheers
Steve

Edit - so with piraterums recipe you'd just go 60 mins and then 45gms at 0mins?

 

[PostModern]

I don't brew so many lagers, so I'm not right up on what happens with hop compounds in a relatively bland grain bill. Were I making a Saazy Summer ale or something like that, yes. Bitter with something neutral then lob the rest in at 0, whip it around whirlpool style with the flame off, let it settle, then run it into a cube. But I'm just a big old bucket measuring, floating 64 mashing, whirlpool hopper who no-chills, so take what I say with a grain of unconventional salt additions.

I made some lagers last year (will again in Springtime no doubt) and did the 60-20-5-0 thing and really made some nice beers. I didn't try the same recipe with a different hop schedule tho. I might do it out of curiousity this year, just to see. I think there are several ways to achieve the same end in this game of ours.

 

[Fourstar]

I've always wondered about bittering hops.....given most of the flavour is boiled way during the 60 min boil, does it really matter what bittering hop you use?

Say what would be the difference between using NB or Saaz as the bittering hop? Other than NB has a higher AA% so you use less hops ie cost factor

well the problem usually lies with high AA = high Co-humulone (harsh astrignent bitterness) there are exceptions to this, for example simcoe (up to 20% co humulone) are beautiful to use as a bittering addition.

a nice little graph viewable below to show maximume fficiency for aroma/bittering and flavour additions.

http://www.brewsupplies.com/hop_characteristics.htm

Cheers!

 

[PostModern]

My experience disputes that graph. Might be because I no-chill, so the flameout addition is in hot (not boiling) wort for about 5 minutes, but I get plenty of flavour and aroma from a flameout/whirlpool addition of about 1g/litre. I think the graph is used to illustrate a theory or hopping model rather than being based on any form of hard "science".

 

[Fourstar]

My experience disputes that graph. Might be because I no-chill, so the flameout addition is in hot (not boiling) wort for about 5 minutes, but I get plenty of flavour and aroma from a flameout/whirlpool addition of about 1g/litre. I think the graph is used to illustrate a theory or hopping model rather than being based on any form of hard "science".

i tend to agree somewhat as i also no chill. Since no-chilling ive found my aroma additon contributes mostly to a flavour addition. (probably due to the time it spends in hot/warm wort.)

I have tried the 5 min addition, flameout addition and also direct to cube addition with marginal differences in 'aroma' but its still definatly there just not as much as i expect.

I think for all purposes, that graph is merely to be used as a guide and not gospel. Hop additions should be covered by this graph when attempting to utilise the most of what you can out of your flavour bitter and aroma additions

Before AG and no-chill, I always found the rule of 60/20/0 did all my beers justice.


Aroma additons appear to be one of the pitfalls of No-chill for me.