Honey Wheat Beer Help And How Do I/can I Use The Honey To Prime Bottle

[Belgrave Brewer]

I'm currently a humble and beginner kit brewer, priming in the bottle.

I'm trying to craft a Wheat Beer with more malt and honey flavours. It sounds strange reading my last sentence but it makes perfect sense in my head and how I think it will end up tasting.

My plan is to use the ESB Bavarian Wheat wort that comes with the K-97 Dry Wheat Yeast. I know I should use the liquid Wyeast and if successful, I'll give it a go on the next batch. I've also purchased 1.5 kilo Coopers Wheat Malt Extract. I was planning on only using 1000g of it.

My plan was to use the Tasmanian Leatherwood Honey to prime the bottles in hopes of retaining the honey flavour. I've pretty much read every honey topic on AHB and it seems like everyone has a different opinion on when the honey should be added.

Here's my plan:
3 Kilos of ESB Bavarian Wheat
1 Kilo Coopers Wheat Malt Extract (50% Malted Barley/50% Malted Wheat extract)
Dry K-97 Wheat/Ale Yeast
to 23 liters

Use honey to prime the bottles.

I was told that the yeast will only ferment out about 60% of the sugar in honey so was thinking about using 1 1/2 times the amount of honey as would normally be used when using dextrose to prime bottles.

Has anyone primed bottles with honey with a good result and how? Or, should I chuck it in in the primary fermentation? Will the honey create nice carbonation and retain its flavour in place of dextrose when bottling?

I'm not sure how easy it will be to prime bottles with honey, so I am thinking about pouring the primary into another container with the honey, mix well, then bottle. Thoughts?

 

[Adamt]

I remember trying one of my friends' honey wheats; from what I recall he bulk primed with honey.

It's HIGHLY recommended that you bulk prime for all brews, to avoid inconsistencies with carbonation (especially on the high side, bottle bombs are not fun).

Put your priming sugar in another clean, sanitized fermenter (or food grade plastic bucket), and carefully syphon/rack the fermented wort into the bucket. You want to avoid splashing at all costs, so put the exit of the tube under the surface of the priming sugar (in your case, honey; it might be an idea to dilute it with some cooled, boiled water to aid in mixing) and bottle from there.

This also allows you leave more of the trub - the dead yeast and crap at the bottom of the fermener - behind (if you wish).

As for what types of honey to use... *shrug* Good luck!

-Adam

 

[Screwtop]

BB I have tried honey, in the boil, in secondary and for priming. Had the best results when used for priming. In the boil, the flavour is nearly totally lost. In secondary, much the same, ferments out. I primed using the same amount as the required amount of bulk priming sugar. Mix the honey with a little water and bring to 80C on the stove, don't boil (don't want to loose the flavour), hold it above 80C for 20 min to pasteurise, then cool and put in the bottling bucket, rack the beer from the fermenter to the bottling bucket containing the honey and mix gently then bottle. The honey flavour and aroma don't seem to last long, but wheats are meant to be drunk fresh and young anyway. Make sure you give the bottles 4 weeks to carb then into them. Wheats should be carb'd higher, maybe some of the wheatie brigade could comment here. I have carb'd them at 2.8 volumes and thought it should have been higher.

 

[Belgrave Brewer]

Thanks Adam and Screwtop!

I decided to add when priming, so I'll do as you have both suggested.

I got a little distracted during the process and tipped the entire 1.5 kg of Wheat Malt extract in so it will be interesting to see how it comes out. Also pitched the yeast @ 28C with an OG of 1062 after temperature correction. Not sure what I should expect for FG as I'm a n00b...haven't gotten into the brewing applications yet either. It's going to be a very wheaty/malty brew I'm guessing, hehe.

What do you mean by 2.8 volumes?

Thanks again guys!!!!

Off to have a few Hargreaves Pale and then onto my last homebrew with some mates.

:beer:

 

[mika]

My 2c has been said before, but I'll go again.
Coopers Wheat beer (Brewmaster range I think), 750g Dextrose, 750g Coopers Wheat Malt Extract. Ferment out (I just used the coopers yeast). 1kg of honey straight out of the tub (no boiling or anything) into secondary, rack the beer on top, will take another ~1wk to ferment that out. Stick it in bottles, Honey flavour seemed to take a couple of weeks to come thru, but it's still there even I crack a bottle now. It was originally bottled on the 9th of April.
I jut used plain old Wescobbe honey, meant to be natural honey with no preservatives.

 

[Adamt]

As far as the "2.8 volumes" goes... *deep breath*

For water at a certain temperature (in our case, the beer), a certain amount of carbon dioxide will dissolve in the beer, at an amount equal to 1 "volume". It is highly dependent on temperature so it is important to prime/bottle/carbonate at the same temperature (preferrably room). This is why warm beer foams everywhere, less carbon dioxide will stay in solution and will escape as head.

When you bottle (seal) the beer in the bottle with priming sugar (or honey), the left over yeast will ferment the sugar to create more alcohol and carbon dioxide. Usually during fermentation, 1 volume of CO2 remains dissolved whilst the rest escapes out the airlock. As the bottle is sealed the CO2 is forced to stay dissolved in the beer until opening.

The reason it takes a few weeks as there is little active yeast left in the bottle, it takes longer to ferment than usual. Different beer styles call for different carbonation levels.

Carbonation Calculator will help you calculate the amount of honey you will need to add in order to get a certain number of volumes of CO2, for a certain temperature. Note that the style suggests 3.6-4.5 volumes of CO2 for a Wheat (Weizen/Weissbier). I don't think I'd recommend this much unless you've got strong bottles .

And that will do for today's lecture on solution mechanics.

-Adam

 

[Belgrave Brewer]

Just a little update for those interested.

I was going to wait another week a crack one open but could not resist and last night had a taste. Still VERY green, but the honey flavour is coming through quite strong after 17 days in the bottle. I'm sure it will lose some of this over the next few months, but i'm hoping the honey will be prominent down the road. It's also very different to a traditional wheat beer with an amber colour and heavier body. I ended up using leatherwood flower honey from Tasmania. It is overly sweet with prominent floral flavours.

I ended up shooting for 3.0 volumes of CO2 (250 grams of honey for 24l) and it is highly carbonated like most Wheat beers.

I'll give another update in a few months time, and hopefully will all be good news.

Thanks for all the advice.

Belgrave Brewer

 

[InCider]

Just a little update for those interested.

I was going to wait another week a crack one open but could not resist and last night had a taste. Still VERY green, but the honey flavour is coming through quite strong after 17 days in the bottle. I'm sure it will lose some of this over the next few months, but i'm hoping the honey will be prominent down the road. It's also very different to a traditional wheat beer with an amber colour and heavier body. I ended up using leatherwood flower honey from Tasmania. It is overly sweet with prominent floral flavours.

I ended up shooting for 3.0 volumes of CO2 (250 grams of honey for 24l) and it is highly carbonated like most Wheat beers.

I'll give another update in a few months time, and hopefully will all be good news.

Thanks for all the advice.

Belgrave Brewer

Hey BB,

I've tossed some honey in the fermenter a few times (bloke up the road keeps bees and gave me some) and have had some nice tastes. The potency of the honey does deteriorate with time, but stays pleasant and subtle. I recently tried honey in a ginger beer - it's fine, just quite syrupy - also due to priming with carb drops which are weaker than sugar IMO. I'll be bulk priming next.

Cheers,

InCider

 

[Belgrave Brewer]

Hey InCider,

I did end up bulk priming with honey and it worked very well. Might be worth a try instead of dextrose or other priming method. I also ended up using more honey to get the carbonation up so the honey taste is quite strong. I'm hoping it'll settle down a bit, but also hope the flavour stays. I went this route as most commercial honey beers I've had are very subtle and from what I've read, honey is primarily used earlier on in the process.

Who knows though...it could end up being a total failure a few months down the road when the beer is mature.

 

[InCider]

Hey InCider,

I did end up bulk priming with honey and it worked very well. Might be worth a try instead of dextrose or other priming method. I also ended up using more honey to get the carbonation up so the honey taste is quite strong. I'm hoping it'll settle down a bit, but also hope the flavour stays. I went this route as most commercial honey beers I've had are very subtle and from what I've read, honey is primarily used earlier on in the process.

Who knows though...it could end up being a total failure a few months down the road when the beer is mature.

BB - the bulk priming honey idea is great. I have a pilsner to but down this weekend, and might bulk prime with dex AND honey - for the subtle flavour...

I'll crack a Honey Ginger been on friday night and let you know how is has settled after 3 weeks in the bottle...

InCider.

PS. I'm allergic to bees, so can't really get a hive!

 

[BlueJ]

I promised SWMBO I'd make her a honey wheat, so thanks to all who contributed to the thread and especially Belgrave Brewer.

We will hopefully use a wheat fresh wort kit and Wyeast 3056 for a 'plain' wheat taste, and then bulk prime with the honey using our other fermenter.

It is good to know that 250g is enough honey. Some of those 'boutique' honeys are pretty expensive.

 

[Belgrave Brewer]

Hi Blue J,

I'd recommend using the calculator (thanks Adamt) in this post to figure out the amount of honey you will need. I pretty much hit the mark with it.

The honey I used was not cheap, but it was under $10 and I used it for the flavour it has. Here's alink to their site if anyone is interested: Golden Nectar Real Leatherwood Honey

I also pasteurised the honey @ 80 degrees in the oven for 1 1/2 hours. Some say you should, some say it is not necessary, but I did it just to be safe.

I'd love to try this with all fresh ingredients...maybe this summer I'll spend some time and money and get off the kits.

 

[Screwtop]

Hey BB,

Sounds great, the honey will soften off, the extra carbing is to style so thats good, remember wheats should be drunk young so after 4 weeks in the bottle - get into em!

Then go make more, and experiment more!

 

[Belgrave Brewer]

Thanks Screwtop...will commence drinking in 2 weeks, hehe. :beerbang:

 

[francismcphail]

Hey BB how is the brew going. Found this post and I'm actually doing the exact same kit, with the same honey.

Purchased the honey from Macro (Organic food store at The Glen shopping centre) for about 6$ or so for 500ml.

Francis.

Thanks Screwtop...will commence drinking in 2 weeks, hehe. :beerbang:

 

[Belgrave Brewer]

Hi Francis,

My last sampling was two weekends ago. The honey sweetness was pretty much gone, but it still had a very nice honey taste and the floral qualities from the type of honey used are coming through nicely. Using honey does give the beer a dryness, which I was not expecting (although this was commented on), but it is not a bad thing at all. The beer was still a bit on the green side, so I decided to give it a few more weeks to condition.

I'll try another this weekend, probably tonight when I get home, and if it is no longer green, I'll let you all know how it is.

Cheers,

BB

 

[Belgrave Brewer]

Beer is Ready!!!!! :super:

I went over to a mates house this weekend with a six pack of the Honey Wheat and we easily went through. I am very happy with the results. This is a keeper! :beer:

Honey is prominent, not overpowering, easy to recognise and the floral characteristics of the leatherwood honey leave a nice spicy finish.

I'll come back to this recipe to refine after I do a Porter.

What I would change?
1. Using 250g of honey to bulk prime gave this beer a high carbonation similar to a traditional Wheat beer. I would bring this down to a Pale Ale carbonation level, but it may also lose a bit of the honey flavour.

2. I'd also use an American Wheat yeast to bring down the banana/clover flavour a bit as they do compliment the honey, but also compete slightly with the floral characterisitcs of the honey I used. I also prefer an American style wheat beer. With this in mind, I'd like to add some citrus...either orange or lemon. Anyone have thoughts on this?

Overall, an excellent base to work from, needs some refining. Too easy to drink, hehe. :lol:

Would love to hear any thoughts/recommendations.

Francis - Let us know how yours turns out.

Cheers,

BB

 

[Screwtop]

Beer is Ready!!!!! :super:

I went over to a mates house this weekend with a six pack of the Honey Wheat and we easily went through. I am very happy with the results. This is a keeper! :beer:

Honey is prominent, not overpowering, easy to recognise and the floral characteristics of the leatherwood honey leave a nice spicy finish.

I'll come back to this recipe to refine after I do a Porter.

What I would change?
1. Using 250g of honey to bulk prime gave this beer a high carbonation similar to a traditional Wheat beer. I would bring this down to a Pale Ale carbonation level, but it may also lose a bit of the honey flavour.

2. I'd also use an American Wheat yeast to bring down the banana/clover flavour a bit as they do compliment the honey, but also compete slightly with the floral characterisitcs of the honey I used. I also prefer an American style wheat beer. With this in mind, I'd like to add some citrus...either orange or lemon. Anyone have thoughts on this?

Overall, an excellent base to work from, needs some refining. Too easy to drink, hehe. :lol:

Would love to hear any thoughts/recommendations.

Francis - Let us know how yours turns out.

Cheers,

BB

Glad it turned ot well for you BB, think the yeast change would help, remember if you drop the honey level it wont carb as quickly and the honey flavour/aroma diminishes with time in the bottle. IMO wheaties need to be drunk young and fresh and well carb'd. How about some orange peel or Corriander Seed. Tasted a ripper made by AndrewQLD at the SEQ yeast swap last week-end.

 

[Belgrave Brewer]

Screwtop,

Orange peel is a great idea...I haven't done this before, so I'll need to look into it a bit more. I've got a few more kits planned before weening myself off the can.

The beer was not really drinkable until now, about 2 months in the bottle and I'll get through it all very soon. I have a Halloween party in a few weeks so it may be cleared out that night.

If I remember correctly, American Wheat beers are not as carbonated...which makes me think altering this and bringing down the carbonation and changing yeast might lend well to this recipe...not a traditional European wheat beer by any means. I know this will bring down the honey flavour as I am priming with it but it may still hold up well. The honey was quite full on a month ago and although the sweetness is now gone, the flavour has remained. It's worth a shot anyway.

 

[BlueJ]

We put ours on yesterday. ESB 3kg Bavarian Wheat kit base made up to 20 litres and Wyeast 3333.

SWMBO is demanding prominent honey flavours and aromas, and residual sweetness. Should I add some less-fermentable sugars (there is such a thing???) at the priming stage to keep some sweetness in it?

Hey BB how did yours taste during the first two months? What made it 'not really drinkable'?

Cheers

BlueJ