Home Brewer Irrational Fear Of Autolysis

[Bizier]

Margerine, you should reconsider racking, and definitely reconsider lowering temps, perhaps you might get rid of your inherent diacetyl content.

Sorry. Bad joke.

 

[Thefatdoghead]

I know nothing about yeast but what iv'e experienced and what iv'e read in books. I always leave my wort fermenting in the same vessel for an average of 5 to 6 weeks in a fridge at a temperature depending on style,yeast etc. I don't get off flavours and my beer must be ok if 5 kegs get wiped out in 1 night by mates.
I remember asking the question on here if leaving a heater under a fermenter was gong to **** the yeast in a saison (Farmhouse ale) but there were no answers of experience so I whacked the heater on for 5 weeks. I was home at the time and the beer stayed at 36 degrees for that time. It turned out to be one of the most complex lovely beers iv'r ever brewed but it did take 2 weeks to go from 1.034 to 1.006 so patients and crossed fingers were the key ha! Autolosis is it real? so they say but it's god damn hard to get it.

 

[Spiesy]

out of interesting... what sort of fermentation time would people recommend giving differing beers styles, on average?

Please include, for my own personal development:

American Pale Ale (with US05):
American Brown Ale (with Nottingham):
American Amber Ale (with US05):
Robust Porter (Wyeast 1272):
TTL (with Wyeast 1969?):

I'm guessing the top 3 will be all the same?

 

[Margarine]

If you can state a reason to rack and you can outline the potential detriments in doing so, your strategy for mitigating them and how the benfits outweigh the residual detriment. Then of course you should transfer to "secondary". But if you dont have the skill/experience/knowledge to run through that mental weighing up process, then I reckon its a step that falls into the "better left alone" category.

Absolutely, which is, I think, the point I was trying to make.

In my case, I do 2 (or even 3) stage fermentations (possibly including a drop stage) for a particular reason; after extensive research of (non home) brewing literature, in order to emulate a specific and particular style of beer (ie, English cask beer). Having pushed the yeast to it's limits, by pitching at the low end of sensible rates, and pushing the temp of fermentation to (or even beyond) it's limits, in order to maximise esters, and various other volatile compounds, the possibility exists that the yeast can drop early, and the secondary fermentation allows for the clean up, and final attenuation that may, without doing so, be limited, allowing for a full front/mid palate malt, reducing rapidly to clean finish on the end palate. This is what works for me, and for the result that I am after. I certainly would not advocate the method to anyone that is unaware of the purpose, and the risk vs reward of the technique.

As mentioned in my initial post; If secondary fermentation is not required for a particular style, or even if it was intended, but the time window was missed, it is, most likely, better not to rack, than to rack, as the risk vs reward has shifted thusly.


OT: Thusly. There's a word that should be used more, methinks. Methinks - theres another one.

 

[Wolfy]

out of interesting... what sort of fermentation time would people recommend giving differing beers styles, on average?

For me, as a general rule for most generic ales (all the ones you have listed):
However-long-it-takes to reach terminal gravity, plus another few (2-3) days, then cold-chill it for a few days/week(s).
All done in the one 'primary' fermentor.
Unless I want to harvest the yeast, add fruit or have another specific reason to transfer the beer at a specific point.
(Current beer in fermenting fridge took 10 days from pitching to start of chill.)
Other specific styles get specific treatment as required;
sometimes double-dropping for English Ales,
lagers might get a D-rest,
other beers might get warmed up at the end of ferment,
it all just depends on the style, yeast and what I'm looking for.

As mentioned in my initial post; If secondary fermentation is not required for a particular style, or even if it was intended, but the time window was missed, it is, most likely, better not to rack, than to rack, as the risk vs reward has shifted thusly.

Very much the point I was trying to make. There are reasonable, logical and practical reasons for transferring beer from one fermentor to another (harvesting yeast, adding fruit, dry hopping, clarity etc) however, one should not assume that just because the beer has been on the yeast for a few weeks, it must be racked for no other reason than to remove it from the yeast cake.

 

[Nick JD]

Would you leave it on the primary cake if you couldn't chill it?

 

[drsmurto]

The cake at the bottom of the fermenter is not just yeast.

It contains proteinaceous material, phenolic compounds, hop material and yes, yeast.

It is the non yeast material that causes me to rack but only after primary fermentation is done and the yeast is flocculating. I then leave the beer in the 'secondary' container at ~1C for weeks or months during which time a layer of yeast forms on the bottom.

 

[hoppy2B]

I suspect the trouble might be the green malt.
Malt needs to be kilned (died) and then rested for at least a week (preferably longer if less consistent) before it is used for brewing.
I feel a bit the same about hops; a lot happens during drying, I dont believe I have ever tasted a wet hoped beer that was worth the effort. A bit late you can get away with too much and the beer is a mystery bag of off flavours.
Mark

I thought I may have had oxidation manifesting as autolysis due to aeration. I used a different method for the Cluster brew and that didn't have the burnt rubber taste. I'm pretty sure its the hops though because its going away.
I'm quite pleased with the results I've achieved with green malt on the whole. Its very smooth. I like wet hops too, I think they have more flavour.
Each to his own I suppose.

 

[Kai]

In the very early stages, I pick up autolysis as flintstones vitamins and in later stages as rotten fruit. The really nasty burnt rubber only manifests in extreme cases. While relatively rare, I can remember at least one example from every competition I've judged.

The only time I've had it develop was in a keg that was left in extreme heat with a not insignificant amount of yeast left in it. I've left beer in the primary for 6+ weeks more times than I can count with no ill effects. I agree that it's a bit of a brewing "momily".

It's funny, I've never heard anyone mention autolysis as rotten fruit before, but have recently done two batches of the same wort with completely different yeasts and gotten overripe fruit as a similar characteristic between both.

I am also surprised that there haven't been more mentions of vegemite in this thread yet.

 

[Nick JD]

I am also surprised that there haven't been more mentions of vegemite in this thread yet.

American brewing texts are not going to use vegemite as a flavour synonym for autolysis as I'm pretty sure most Americans have never tasted it. All the American books use burnt rubber.

If you get ten grams of vegemite and smother it on your tongue and breathe in deeply, it's probably quite like a tyre fire.

 

[Kai]

I was being faintly tongue-in-cheek

My favourite thing about vegemite though, is the the propensity for foreigners to apply in similar quantities to peanut butter on their first encounter

 

[Fourstar]

My favourite thing about vegemite though, is the the propensity for foreigners to apply in similar quantities to peanut butter on their first encounter

Thats the only way to eat it!

Although im partial to popping a teaspoon in the jar and sucking on that over spreading it on toast.