Help

[braufrau]

Lol, and so it comes back to the water! I should just move house... take care of the water problem and get a new LHBS in one easy step! Will source some no-rinse and clean up my water situation... and then try again. Thanks for the help.

Try making a brew with bottled / cask water and see what happens.
That will rule out/in the water for sure!

 

[Tony]

Hi guys,

Simpletotoro, I will bear that in mind. Those temps are way lower than those recommended in the instructions from Coopers etc! I was busting a gut trying to keep it between 21 and 27 in this cooler weather. So who writes those things I wonder...

BF, the way things go at the moment, I brew it until the SG levels out - about a week with the temps I'm brewing at currently. But it usually goes to crap well before then, usually after a day or two and I end up tipping it down the drain before it ever reaches final gravity. I am interested to hear that your brews are fizzy after primary. I had never come across that before and had taken it as a bad sign? Mine gets very fizzy though, to the point where if I try to take a SG reading in the hydrometer test tube, I need to let it sit a half hour for the foam to die down so that I can see the stem to read it! Just seems a bit extreme to me...

Thanks for your imput lads. Much appreciated.

My beer is always fizzy in the test tube at the end of primary. Its just disolved Co2 produced by the yeast that hasnt come out of solution yet.

HEre is what i would do.

1. take everything.... EVERYTHING you use to brew with and put it in your firmenter. Racking tubes, spoons, airlocks, o rings, grommets, you name it. Remove the tap and bung the hole with one of the screw in plugs. make sure there is no build up where the tap screws in. Fill said firmenter with water and add 1/4 cup of un scented bleach. Fill to the top. Screw the lid on so the bleach solution floods into the top of the lid. soak for 48 hrs.

2. get your self some iodophur. http://www.esbeer.com.au/category41_1.htm USe this to give the firmenter and everything else a quick steralise before you use it. IT only needs a cap full in 10 liters of water for 10 minuites or so and it can be re-used while it has its yellow colour. just drain use, no need to rinse. lots of places sell it so get it from where ever is easiest. BE carefull of it in didgy little home brew shops though cause some water it down and charge the earth for it.

3. buy your self an old $50 fridge to firment in. put a $40 0-40 deg thermostat in it and brew at what ever temp you want all year round. What you have tipped out would have bought that fridge by now so dont be a tight arse 2.5 cartons of beer for the $20 if costs for a k+K....... VB cartons are almost $40 now so thats a saving of $80/ batch. On the second barch you have your money back and a firmentation fridge to make better beer in. Makes sense when you look at it like that hey.

3. ditch the kit yeast and use US-05 for a dry beer, SO-4 for a sweeter beer, or a good lager yeast

4. Firment at the low end of the yeasts temp range. If its 17 to 24 deg, brew at 18.

5. Ditch you LHBS and go see Mark @ MArks Home Brew in newcastle. He will set you strait with good advice.


I wouldnt go worring about the water too much...... Is it drinkable, if its not an odd colour or bad smelling id day its fine. Sounds like a combo of infection and too high temps to me.

The first kit i did i followed the instructions and held it at 24 deg. Tasted like fruit punch cordial. So i got some SO-4 (best dry ale yeast out at the time) and firmented it at 19 deg. Well it made the beer taste like beer.... never looked back.

hope this helps.

cheers

 

[mfdes]

I just have this nagging feeling that this problem does not sound like an infection though...
The reason homebrew kits have the instructions they have is because by following them, you can't possibly stuff up. The yeast supplied is so vigorous you're guaranteed a fast, strong fermentation before any beasties get a toehold, and by the time the fermentation is over (2-3 days in the recommended temperature), there is enough alcohol to keep all but *slow*, bacteria and wild yeast infections at bay.
However, most kits, (and in my experience all the ones you can buy at the supermarket) will give you crap beer when you do follow the instructions.
Any amount of sugar close to what the kit recommends are guaranteed to give you overly thin (some people say cidery) beer, which is harsh from all the undesirable by-products produced by the yeast at such high temperatures.

The water might be a possibility. What is your water like? Do you get brown water out of the tap? I'm trying to account for how you get the old dark ale and the cerveza to end up the same colour.

How do you keep your beer warm? You mentioned you struggle to keep it high enough. Do you use an immersion heater? If so, then maybe infection is the problem after all. I soon ditched using immersion heaters because they are impossible to sanitise, and they do carry over a healthy infection starter from batch to batch... much more than you'd get otherwise and possibly enough to compete with the yeast.

Still, what I'd recommend to any person starting to brew and discovering that what you get from a kit just doesn't taste like beer is this: ditch the instructions, ditch the yeast and ditch the sucrose / brew enhancer. Go to your local homebrew shop (or mail order from one of our sponsors, who do a brilliant job), buy some US-05 yeast, and a kilo of malt extract of the color to suit your brew (dark for stout and dark ale, light for others). Boil your ingredients together in a stockpot for a few minutes, add to your fermenter with cooled boiled water, and sprinkle the yeast (When the temperature has dropped to close to 20 degrees).
All this talk about airlocks being essential... don't believe it, people have been brewing in open fermenters for yonks and getting good results. Yes your chances of an infection increase, but these are really only a problem if you're storing your beer for a long time. I've certainly never heard of an infection so fast that (using a vigoros yeast) it is noticeable as quickly as you mention.
Cheers,

MFS

 

[therook]

My beer is always fizzy in the test tube at the end of primary. Its just disolved Co2 produced by the yeast that hasnt come out of solution yet.

HEre is what i would do.

1. take everything.... EVERYTHING you use to brew with and put it in your firmenter. Racking tubes, spoons, airlocks, o rings, grommets, you name it. Remove the tap and bung the hole with one of the screw in plugs. make sure there is no build up where the tap screws in. Fill said firmenter with water and add 1/4 cup of un scented bleach. Fill to the top. Screw the lid on so the bleach solution floods into the top of the lid. soak for 48 hrs.

2. get your self some iodophur. http://www.esbeer.com.au/category41_1.htm USe this to give the firmenter and everything else a quick steralise before you use it. IT only needs a cap full in 10 liters of water for 10 minuites or so and it can be re-used while it has its yellow colour. just drain use, no need to rinse. lots of places sell it so get it from where ever is easiest. BE carefull of it in didgy little home brew shops though cause some water it down and charge the earth for it.

3. buy your self an old $50 fridge to firment in. put a $40 0-40 deg thermostat in it and brew at what ever temp you want all year round. What you have tipped out would have bought that fridge by now so dont be a tight arse 2.5 cartons of beer for the $20 if costs for a k+K....... VB cartons are almost $40 now so thats a saving of $80/ batch. On the second barch you have your money back and a firmentation fridge to make better beer in. Makes sense when you look at it like that hey.

3. ditch the kit yeast and use US-05 for a dry beer, SO-4 for a sweeter beer, or a good lager yeast

4. Firment at the low end of the yeasts temp range. If its 17 to 24 deg, brew at 18.

5. Ditch you LHBS and go see Mark @ MArks Home Brew in newcastle. He will set you strait with good advice.
I wouldnt go worring about the water too much...... Is it drinkable, if its not an odd colour or bad smelling id day its fine. Sounds like a combo of infection and too high temps to me.

The first kit i did i followed the instructions and held it at 24 deg. Tasted like fruit punch cordial. So i got some SO-4 (best dry ale yeast out at the time) and firmented it at 19 deg. Well it made the beer taste like beer.... never looked back.

hope this helps.

cheers

Hey Tony, after you soak with bleach for 48 hrs i assume you have to rinse it out with hot water?

Rook

 

[Tony]

The basic rule of cleaning chemicals from a container is to rince 3 times. In industry, its not clean unless its rinsed thrice.

So i tip the bleach solution down the drain, take the ritmenter out to the lawn and give it a good blast with the hose, swoosh it (techincal term) and tip it out. do this 3 times.

If i can still smell bletch (usually cant) or can taste it in the 3rd rince (never have) i boil the jug and "swoosh it" with the hop water.

i have left my firmenters to go mouldy for 2 months. I have had to clean them cause the wife is complaining of the smell. a quick hose out, and a 2 day soak in bleach solution and they are good as new. It breaks down any build up on the sides, turns it white and it sinks to the bottom. I do scrub this off usually though but if its in a cube that you cant reach, it works a treat.

I have a technical way of measuring the bleach too. Its called a "BLOOP"

When you tip the bottle up to tip it in it goes bloop, bloop, bloop into the firmenter. I use 2 Bloops for a 30 liter firmenter and 4 bloops of a 60 liter firmenter. 1 extra if its a bit yucky in there.

Only had one infection in years and that was from dirty airlock water getting sucked into the brew when i lifter the firmenter. It was fine till i did that.

cheers

 

[tangent]

Try making a brew with bottled / cask water and see what happens.
That will rule out/in the water for sure!

:blink: don't you think boiling would be a better alternative?

 

[therook]

Jeez Tony your wifes not very understanding

Great explanaton in a humurous way :chug:

Rook

 

[braufrau]

:blink: don't you think boiling would be a better alternative?

Well its an alternative.
Not everyone has a kick arse burner and a converted keg to boil 23l of water in!

 

[ozpowell]

The basic rule of cleaning chemicals from a container is to rince 3 times. In industry, its not clean unless its rinsed thrice.

So i tip the bleach solution down the drain, take the ritmenter out to the lawn and give it a good blast with the hose, swoosh it (techincal term) and tip it out. do this 3 times.

If i can still smell bletch (usually cant) or can taste it in the 3rd rince (never have) i boil the jug and "swoosh it" with the hop water.

i have left my firmenters to go mouldy for 2 months. I have had to clean them cause the wife is complaining of the smell. a quick hose out, and a 2 day soak in bleach solution and they are good as new. It breaks down any build up on the sides, turns it white and it sinks to the bottom. I do scrub this off usually though but if its in a cube that you cant reach, it works a treat.

I have a technical way of measuring the bleach too. Its called a "BLOOP"

When you tip the bottle up to tip it in it goes bloop, bloop, bloop into the firmenter. I use 2 Bloops for a 30 liter firmenter and 4 bloops of a 60 liter firmenter. 1 extra if its a bit yucky in there.

Only had one infection in years and that was from dirty airlock water getting sucked into the brew when i lifter the firmenter. It was fine till i did that.

cheers

Hey Tony,

Are you concerned about any nasties inside your garden hose? I guess it can't be too much of a problem if you've never had an infection from it. Just seems like a risk to me....

Cheers,
Michael

 

[tangent]

but most people have a kettle or pasta pots and a stove.

 

[braufrau]

So here's my theory ... ahem!

You say you're tasting it after 2 days?? It will still be sweet. That combined with fruity esters
produced by the hot fermentation may give you a pineapple sensation.

So here's my variation on Tony's suggestions.

1. Find a good HBS and a tasty kit.
2. Carefully sterilise everything (you know not to use a scourer on your plastic things right?)
3. Get some good neutral yeast. US-05 or maybe Nottingham.
4. Figure out how to control your temperature. You could do the fridge/fridgemate thing. I ferment
in a cardboard box with a thermostat connected to the heating mat. Some people use a timer and cycle
the mat on and off every 15 mins or so.
5. Now you may brew. Keep the ferementer at 18-20C for 2 whole weeks. Do not taste! Do not touch!
Do not think about it!
6. Prime and bottle. And sneak a taste from the hydrometer, ignoring the bubbles.
7. Keep the bottles warm (18-20) for 2 weeks.
8. keep the bottles in a coolish cupboard (10 - 16C) for 6 weeks.
9. Open and enjoy!

 

[winkle]

Try pulling your taps apart - I had a long running infection problem caused by a small amount of gunk inside the fermentor tap.

 

[Tony]

Hey Tony,

Are you concerned about any nasties inside your garden hose? I guess it can't be too much of a problem if you've never had an infection from it. Just seems like a risk to me....

Cheers,
Michael

Thats what the iodophur is for. I do the bleach thing and then the firmenters may sit for months unused. before filling, give everything a hit with the no rince sanitiser and off you go.

I did kits and partials for about 6 t0 12 months....cant remember exactly, and i always just topped them up with the hose. It was a short one to minamise any "hose" flavour but it never affected of In-fected the beer.

Didnt do much for my typing skills though

as for pulling apart taps...... only my opinion but it just dammages them and makes them more prone to leak and cause an infection. soaking them in the bleach solution with them in the open position works a treat.

cheers

 

[SJW]

I am interested to hear that your brews are fizzy after primary. I had never come across that before and had taken it as a bad sign? Mine gets very fizzy though, to the point where if I try to take a SG reading in the hydrometer test tube, I need to let it sit a half hour for the foam to die down so that I can see the stem to read it! Just seems a bit extreme to me...

Thats normal dude Have u ever been to the UK and had a cask conditioned ale? Think about it. <_<

 

[Jord]

Thanks very much everyone for all your help. Sounds like good advice and I will be sure to follow it carefully. I am interested in the thermostat idea so will investigate that further before proceeding. And then I guess there is nothing left to do but brew... :unsure: