Help with Recipe - 4 Pines Double Cascadian Dark Ale Clone

[Schooner_downunder]

Hello all, I had a glass of 4 Pines Double Cascadian Dark Ale on the weekend. I've been to the 4 Pines website and was able to build a basic recipe but looking for some help.



Double Cascadian Dark Ale



Type: All Grain


Batch Size: 21.00 l


Boil Size: 34 l


Boil Time: 90 min


End of Boil Vol: 24.88 l


Final Bottling Vol: 19.30 l


Estimated OG – 1.089
Estimated [SIZE=14.6667px]FG[/SIZE] – 1.023


IBV – 85


Color – 58.6


Estimated ABV – 8.0 %





Mash Ingredients


5.50 kg - Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) - 71.4 %


0.95 kg - Caramunich Malt (110.3 EBC) - 12.3 %


0.50 kg - Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (150.0 EBC) - 6.5 %


0.35 kg - Wheat (BestMälz) (4.0 EBC) - 4.5 %


0.25 kg - Carapils (Briess) (3.0 EBC) - 3.2 %


0.15 kg - Carafa Special II (Weyermann) (1400.0 EBC) - 1.9 %





Boil Ingredients


37.00 g - Columbus [SIZE=14.6667px] [15.70 %][/SIZE] - Boil 70.0 min - 59.1 IBUs


46.00 g - Columbus [15.70 %] - Boil 10.0 min - 25.9 IBUs


45.00 g - Cascade [7.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min - 0.0 IBUs


45.00 g - Centennial [9.10 %] - Boil 0.0 min - 0.0 IBUs





Fermentation Ingredients


1.0 pkg - American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056)





Dry Hop


50.00 g - Amarillo [8.30 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days

 

[AJS2154]

I haven't tasted it mate, so apologies, can't help. What I was wanting to comment on is the sad affliction you and I share.....You are out in a pub or a restaurant. You casually taste a beer and then replicating it becomes a life long odyssey. It's a bugger isn't it? I have had the same issue with White Rabbit Dark Ale. In fact, that was why I read your post; just in case somebody made mention of the Dark Ale as a comparable beer.

C'mon, folkes, help this poor man......he has an issue that won't go away until resolved.

See you, Anthony

 

[timmi9191]

My $0.02

18% crystal malts is too high - bring the total of the caramunich and crystal down to 10%
increase the wheat to 10%
I know the website says it has carapils, but I really dont think its necessary. At 3% its not really going to add anything, the 10% wheat will give plenty of mouthfeel and head retention.

I think you should be aiming for 1010-1015 for the fg. 1023 is too high IMO. the lower fg should help the 85IBU stand out more, remember its a double black IPA that youre after.

Do the first Columbus as FWH and finally add some amarillo to the 0 min addiition.

 

[Schooner_downunder]

Thanks Timmi9191 for the feedback, updated the recipe to lower and simply the crystal malts, increased the wheat, bumped up the carafa special ii to darken and added some DME to retain a 7 % ABV.


Double Cascadian Dark Ale



Type: All Grain


Batch Size: 21.00 l


Boil Size: 34 l


Boil Time: 90 min


End of Boil Vol: 24.88 l


Final Bottling Vol: 19.30 l


Estimated OG – 1.070
Estimated [SIZE=14.6667px]FG[/SIZE] – 1.016


IBV – 85


Color – 66.3


Estimated ABV – 7.1 %





Mash Ingredients


4.50 kg - Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) - 72.7 %
0.62 kg - Wheat (BestMälz) (4.0 EBC) - 10.0 %


0.31 kg - Caramunich Malt (110.3 EBC) - 5.0 %


0.31 kg - Carafa Special II (Weyermann) (1400.0 EBC) - 5.0 %


0.45 kg - DME Light (4.9 EBC) - 7.3 %





Boil Ingredients


30.00 g - Columbus [SIZE=14.6667px] [15.70 %][/SIZE] - First Wort - 65.5 IBUs


38.00 g - Columbus [15.70 %] - Boil 10.0 min - 23.5 IBUs
40.00 g - Amarillo [8.30 %] - Boil 0.0 min - 0.0 IBUs


45.00 g - Cascade [7.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min - 0.0 IBUs


45.00 g - Centennial [9.10 %] - Boil 0.0 min - 0.0 IBUs





Fermentation Ingredients


1.0 pkg - American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) (Starter 1.040 on Stir-plate)





Dry Hop


50.00 g - Amarillo [8.30 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days

 

[HopAssault]

Your second rendition looks good mate.
Just remember that you'll still get SOME isomerisation from your 0 min additions, unless of course you chill your wort in <5 mins. I always set my flame out additions to around 2 mins to compensate for that fact, seems to be a little more accurate. Usually i'd only worry about this when throwing in over 100g's of high AA hops, as you have.
Also if you really wanted it to be hop forward, you could always bump up that dry hop addition too, it's fairly modest for a beer that size B)

 

[Schooner_downunder]

Thanks HopAssault, I lowered the boil hops slightly to hit my target 85 IBUs, changed the late hops to 2 min before flameout, and bumped up the late/dry hops to 176 g to push the hop profile. Can't wait to give it a try this Friday


Double Cascadian Dark Ale



Type: All Grain


Batch Size: 21.00 l


Boil Size: 34 l


Boil Time: 90 min


End of Boil Vol: 24.88 l


Final Bottling Vol: 19.30 l


Estimated OG – 1.070
Estimated [SIZE=14.6667px]FG[/SIZE] – 1.016


IBV – 85


Color – 65.6


Estimated ABV – 7.0 %





Mash Ingredients


4.50 kg - Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) - 72.7 %
0.62 kg - Wheat (BestMälz) (4.0 EBC) - 10.0 %


0.31 kg - Caramunich Malt (110.3 EBC) - 5.0 %


0.31 kg - Carafa Special II (Weyermann) (1400.0 EBC) - 5.0 %


0.45 kg - DME Light (4.9 EBC) - 7.3 %





Boil Ingredients


28.00 g - Columbus [SIZE=14.6667px] [15.70 %][/SIZE] - First Wort - 55.3 IBUs


35.00 g - Columbus [15.70 %] - Boil 10.0 min - 21.2 IBUs
40.00 g - Amarillo [8.30 %] - Boil 2.0 min - 2.4 IBUs


40.00 g - Cascade [7.00 %] - Boil 2.0 min - 3.4 IBUs


36.00 g - Centennial [9.10 %] - Boil 2.0 min - 2.8 IBUs





Fermentation Ingredients


1.0 pkg - American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) (Starter 1.040 on Stir-plate)





Dry Hop


90.00 g - Amarillo [8.30 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days

 

[dirtynidge]

Love this beer! How did yours end up?

I have a been working on a very similar extract recipe but with Columbus at 60min then equal parts Centennial, Amarillo, Columbus & Cascade at 15min and whirlpool, to 75ibu.

 

[Schooner_downunder]

Hi dirtynidge,

Sorry for the late reply, being working too much to have a chance to lay down a brew, this is next on the list. Just picked up a yeast forge and planning to christien of this baby!!

 

[dirtynidge]

I made mine last night, somehow missed my OG by 10 points, hard to do with an extract brew!!
Will see how it goes.
Anyone have any thoughts on dry hopping this beer???

 

[dirtynidge]

Sorry, I see there has been mention of a generous dry hop addition, I was enquiringly more about the the type of hop.
Is Amarillo an educated guess or is this what 4 Pines dry hop this beer with? I can't find any mention of it.

 

[damoninja]

Drinking a bottle of this now... Will be watching this thread to see how the clone turns out, no doubt will be good no matter how close it is but this beer's a pretty damn good example of a big fat BIPA, it's got great balance considering how much potential these flavours have to clash...

Sorry, I see there has been mention of a generous dry hop addition, I was enquiringly more about the the type of hop.
Is Amarillo an educated guess or is this what 4 Pines dry hop this beer with? I can't find any mention of it.

I'd say a good educated guess, the grapefruit and orange are dominant hops on the nose and palate. Hard one to pin, if it were me I'd probably have gone for 60g amarillo 15g casc 15g cent dry. I love the idea of bombing it with amarillo, however.

Estimated ABV – 7.0 %

Additionally this beer is 8.0%