Help- Stuck Rice Lager

[ASYLUM_SPIRIT]

Hi all

My Rice Lager seems to be stuck. I believe brew day went well.
I started fermenting 4/12/21 and it now day 8.
I'm brewing under pressure 15psi at around 19 degrees. It took off within 8 hours of pitching a 2 litre yeast starter that was on stir plate for 3 days. SG was 1.046 by day 2 it dropped to 1.022, now for the last 4 days its stuck at 1.018. I have swirled the fermenter around raised the temp up to 21 degrees but no changes as yet. Krausen has dropped. It tastes and looks good.

Looking for advice, its my first rice lager and perhaps they don't ferment all the way down to around 1.010 as predicted, maybe I'm missing something?

Should I add some more yeast nutrient aside from the teaspoon i added during the last 10 mins of boil, or pitch some more yeast, or just wait?

FYI I used cooked white long grain rice instead of flaked rice as I couldn't find rice in Brewfather.

Thanks

International Pale Lager
4.9% / 11.2 °P
Recipe by
Redside Brewing
All Grain
BrewZilla 35L 2021 current
69% efficiency
Batch Volume: 23 L
Boil Time: 60 min
Mash Water: 20 L
Sparge Water: 13.45 L @ 76 °C
Total Water: 33.45 L
Boil Volume: 30.08 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.041
Vitals
Original Gravity: 1.045
Final Gravity (Fixed): 1.008
IBU (Tinseth): 19
BU/GU: 0.42
Colour: 5.7 EBC
Mash
Strike Temp — 75.1 °C
Temperature — 70 °C — 60 min
Mash Out — 75 °C — 10 min
Malts (5.08 kg)
3.2 kg (63%) — Gladfield Pilsner Malt — Grain — 3.8 EBC
1.8 kg (35.4%) — Briess Rice, Flaked — Grain — 2 EBC
80 g (1.6%) — Acid Malt — Grain — 5.9 EBC
Hops (50 g)
15 g (19 IBU) — Sorachi Ace 12% — Boil — 60 min
35 g — Sorachi Ace 13% — Boil — 0 min
Miscs
0.18 g — Baking Soda (NaHCO3) — Mash
1.63 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
0.36 g — Epsom Salt (MgSO4) — Mash
0.3 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash
1.63 g — Magnesium Chloride (MgCl2) — Mash
0.12 g — Baking Soda (NaHCO3) — Sparge
1.06 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Sparge
0.23 g — Epsom Salt (MgSO4) — Sparge
0.2 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Sparge
1.06 g — Magnesium Chloride (MgCl2) — Sparge
Yeast
1 pkg — Fermentis W-34/70 Saflager Lager 83%
Fermentation
Primary — 18 °C — 14 days
Carbonation: 2.4 CO2-vol

https://share.brewfather.app/YogZnKp8buCMte

 

[MHB]

I suspect your mash temperature is the problem, a 70oC mash will kill most of you Beta Amylase guaranteeing a low fermentable wort, in fact exactly what you have got.

About the only fix is to add some dry enzyme to the fermenter, you will get very dry beer.

Personally I don’t see the point of pressure fermentation, nor the point in adding BiCarb to a beer well unless it’s really dark and your pH is too low (not the case here). You are in fact paying extra for Acid malt then buying BiCarb to undo the good the acid is doing - strange type of thinking for mine.
Mark

 

[ASYLUM_SPIRIT]

Right thanks mate

Bugger for 70 degrees too high I didn't factor that in as I based the recipe off similar rice lagers and thought that temp was right.

This style is typically dry, so if I was to add some enzyme whats it called and how much?

Reason for pressure ferment was to speed the lager up.

LOL, when it comes to water chemistry in general I let the app to most of the calc for me based on my profile and the target profile, and then I follow that. I don't really have the confidence to go it alone in terms of water chemistry.

 

[MHB]

Dry Enzymes come in little sachets about the size of a kit yeast packaging. They are called "Dry Enzyme", open and sprinkle into the wort and wait....

Agreed that pressure fermentation can make lager faster; about 21 days rather than 28 days in a commercial brewery. However it doesn't make better lager, it's a process used by breweries that care more about speed than quality, not why I brew!

If you really care about water chemistry get a pH meter, make sure you have enough Calcium in the water (50-100ppm Min) and get your pH right.
Mark

 

[yankinoz]

Personally I don’t see the point of pressure fermentation,hen buying BiCarb to undo the good the acid is doing - strange type of thinking for mine.
Mark
[/QUOTE]

I haven't seen the point either, always excepting the use of slight pressure to facilitate low-oxygen brewing. But here is a different take and different purpose, with respect to NEIPAs rather than lagers: Fermenting & Dry Hopping Under Pressure - Scott Janish

Dan

 

[MHB]

Interesting read, more opinions and conjecture than science

Some very basic misassumptions that lead me to be a little sceptical about the value as a basis for decisions on brewing
No problem with bunging late to build up condition, nor with a little overpressure to exclude oxygen, the low terminal Ph would want looking at, that is a biologically unsafe pH and pretty bad for the flavour of the beer too.
Mark

 

[ASYLUM_SPIRIT]

Dry Enzymes come in little sachets about the size of a kit yeast packaging. They are called "Dry Enzyme", open and sprinkle into the wort and wait....

Agreed that pressure fermentation can make lager faster; about 21 days rather than 28 days in a commercial brewery. However it doesn't make better lager, it's a process used by breweries that care more about speed than quality, not why I brew!

If you really care about water chemistry get a pH meter, make sure you have enough Calcium in the water (50-100ppm Min) and get your pH right.
Mark

Thanks mate
I do care, and I do have a PH meter. I spend such a long time trying to get the chemistry right. I have struggled to get PH right constantly I don't know what im doing wrong.
So every brew should have Calcium in the water (50-100ppm Min) ?

 

[ASYLUM_SPIRIT]

Personally I don’t see the point of pressure fermentation,hen buying BiCarb to undo the good the acid is doing - strange type of thinking for mine.
Mark

I haven't seen the point either, always excepting the use of slight pressure to facilitate low-oxygen brewing. But here is a different take and different purpose, with respect to NEIPAs rather than lagers: Fermenting & Dry Hopping Under Pressure - Scott Janish

Dan
[/QUOTE]

Learning something new here.
As i said before I use beersmith or brewfather to calculate what salts etc I need in my water based on the water I have at home and my target profile. I put a lot of faith in them. I have a reasonable handle on water chemistry but not enough .

 

[ASYLUM_SPIRIT]

Interesting read, more opinions and conjecture than science

Some very basic misassumptions that lead me to be a little sceptical about the value as a basis for decisions on brewing
No problem with bunging late to build up condition, nor with a little overpressure to exclude oxygen, the low terminal Ph would want looking at, that is a biologically unsafe pH and pretty bad for the flavour of the beer too.
Mark

Thanks, PH was set lower because normally my PH comes out higher than what was estimated using brewfather.
I don't know what else I can do to get PH right, I'm normally in the range but never hit my target PH.

 

[duncbrewer]

@ASYLUM_SPIRIT Agree with the above , some dry enzyme is your only chance to get the gravity down. Release the pressure slowly on the fermenter before tipping the enzyme in.
Mangrove Jacks is called Dry Enzyme, one packet should be fine.

Re your water woes what is the starting water? Can you link the profile code used in brewersfriend water calc that will show your workings and data?

 

[Tangentile]

Could be an under pitch too. I packet of yeast for 23L of lager seems short.

 

[Hangover68]

Could be an under pitch too. I packet of yeast for 23L of lager seems short.

that depends on the yeast, i use S189 for lagers and 1 pack does 23ltrs so works for me.

 

[Tangentile]

that depends on the yeast, i use S189 for lagers and i pack does 23ltrs so works for me.

Is S189 any good under pressure?

 

[MHB]

I wouldn’t think it was underpitched, he made a 2L starter and it peeled of 22 points in the first 48 hours.

If you want to read a bit more on water chemistry, this is the notes for a talk I did for my local club a couple of years ago, might help you put the pieces together, takes what I call a functional approach to water chemistry and pH.
Mark

 

[philrob]

Very much worth a read about water chemistry. I was there when MHB presented his talk.

 

[Hangover68]

Is S189 any good under pressure?

done a couple of rice lagers in a fermentersaurus and works well.

 

[An Ankoù]

Right thanks mate

Bugger for 70 degrees too high I didn't factor that in as I based the recipe off similar rice lagers and thought that temp was right.

This style is typically dry, so if I was to add some enzyme whats it called and how much?

Reason for pressure ferment was to speed the lager up.

LOL, when it comes to water chemistry in general I let the app to most of the calc for me based on my profile and the target profile, and then I follow that. I don't really have the confidence to go it alone in terms of water chemistry.

Here you are mate:
https://beerco.com.au/search?options[unavailable_products]=show&options[prefix]=last&q=enzyme
I'd go for the distiller's enzyme because you get more in the packet and you only need a few grams. Any enzyme that says amyloglucosidase or glucoamylase is good- in fact they're just different names for the same thing. If you're popping round to your local homebrew store and you get offered a liquid version, that's cool, too.
I just made my first rice lager with about half the rice you've used and mashed overnight at 64-65C. I used Lallemand Diamond- just because I had a flask full of slurry from an earlier brew and so my rice beer got a massive dose. It settled out with an FG of 1003 without using any enzyme at all and I think that's due to the vigour and quantity of the yeast (250 ml of thick slurry in 15 litres) and I always chuck a teaspoonful of nutrient in as a matter of course.
There's a post on the UK forum only a day or two ago from a fellow brewer in the Netherlands having similar issues.
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...o-cracking-japanese-lagers.97235/post-1099947

 

[Tangentile]

I wouldn’t think it was underpitched, he made a 2L starter and it peeled of 22 points in the first 48 hours.

If you want to read a bit more on water chemistry, this is the notes for a talk I did for my local club a couple of years ago, might help you put the pieces together, takes what I call a functional approach to water chemistry and pH.
Mark

Missed the note about the starter - makes sense. Enjoyed the water paper.