Help Identify off flavor

[Robbo2234]

Hi all
I am getting a off flavor in one beer I think it came out of the fermenter to early. It's a waxy / lipstick flavor I have tasted this in Belgium style beers I just don't know what it's called

Thanks

 

[Grott]

I'd say oxygen has got into your brew somehow after fermentation. Did you keg or bottle and do you think oxygen may have affect your brew?

 

[manticle]

I'd associate waxy with yeast breakdown but a bit more info on recipe, fermentation processes, etc will help.

 

[Mardoo]

I've tasted that exact flavour from fermenter samples. It's gone away by the end of the ferment. I've seen it with Belgians - can't remember which one - and 1469. Extremely unlikely it's yeast breakdown, in my case, unless the yeast has started breaking down five days into an 18C ferment.

I'm guessing it's something that gets re-used by the yeast during the clean-up in the few days after ferment is complete. Do you give your beers some time to clean-up after final gravity is reached?

Unfortunately though, I can't offer names of what it is. I've looked, but haven't yet found anything that fits.

 

[Robbo2234]

All grain recipe
75% pillsner
10% Vienna
7% munich
3% carapils
3% wheat

I am fairly certain it's because it's come off the yeast to early. I am just not sure what's it's called.

 

[Jack of all biers]

If it is definitely not from autolysis (ie Caprylic) then it could be;

Ethyl Capriylate (AKA Ethyl Octanoate): Floral, Fruity (apple,apricot, banana, pear, pineapple), soapy, sweet, vinous (brandy, wine-like), waxy. Present in all beers, although concentrations vary widely. Concentrations are higher in Belgian beers. Perception Threshold: 0.01-1.5 mg/L.

It can be increased by the yeast strain used, poor yeast management (under pitching/wrong fermentation temps/low oxygen levels/ oxygenating green beer etc...), wild yeast infection, Insufficient yeast growth, FAN/Amino acid deficiency, Mineral deficiency (Zinc/Calcium etc) or high hydrostatic pressure during fermentation (commercial problem mostly).

It can be decreased by the opposite of most of the above and proper separation of wort from hot/cold break. Aging will decrease or eliminate the Ester over a period of time (can be over a year depending on how much there is. You will need to determine when this is achieved by tasting).

I'm thinking in your case it could be a combination of the yeast variety you used, wrong conditions for the yeast (what yeast, what pitching rate and what Ferm. temps did you use?) and perhaps your personal taste perception (can others also taste what you taste?).

 

[good4whatAlesU]

I'm just a little bit nervous that many brewers seem to know what lipstick tastes like!!

Edit: From the kissing of the fairer sex I hope!!

 

[manticle]

I couldn't care if it's kissing their hairy lipstick wearing biker boyfriend called Dave.

Nor whether the Brewer is wearing a skirt or trousers.

 

[good4whatAlesU]

Fair enough! It's a wonderful diverse modern world we are living in.

I shall make a point of getting to know what lipstick tastes like so I can detect and describe off flavours in my beer.

 

[manticle]

There's some other great ones - goaty is one of my favourites.

A few years ago I did a fault tasting session and tried caprylic acid in beer.

Not so much in the flavour but the aroma was unmistakably goat/farmyard animal hair.

 

[Robbo2234]

20 liters of wort one pack of us05 @ 20ish deg.

FYI I generally don't wear pants or skirts when brewing. I prefer shorts

 

[manticle]

Not a cuber then?

 

[Robbo2234]

A careful cuber!

 

[dblunn]

I couldn't care if it's kissing their hairy lipstick wearing biker boyfriend called Dave.

Nor whether the Brewer is wearing a skirt or trousers.

Hey Manicle, steady on mate. I'm a hairy biker called Dave and I don't wear lipstick!.....well not very often, anyway.

 

[manticle]

Do you cube?

 

[MHB]

Did a bit of searching and there are a couple of possibilities
Caprylic (as Jack of all beers said) is a very good possibility - damaged, old, stresses yeast
Esters from stressed yeast and possibly from incomplete fermentation, nutrition aeration... could be increased by early transfer (but 5 days isn't really early if all the yeast pitch rates, health and nutrition are in place)
Hydrocarbon contamination, grease from the mill, oil on equipment, lubricant leaking inside pumps and valves... generally described as waxy.
Contamination from wild yeast and bacteria.

Searching for 'lipstick" returns suggestions about not wearing any while judging beer, that includes Vaseline and chap-sticks.

You will have to look through your system and ingredients for an answer, it might be the missing 2% in your grain bill .
Mark

 

[Robbo2234]

Thanks for the replys

I don't e think it's a oil / grease issue as it's the main flavor the some Belgium beers.

 

[Coodgee]

I think trying to diagnose off flavors over the internet is a difficult task.

 

[Robbo2234]

Are you in plying you want to come over for a taste test?

 

[good4whatAlesU]

Will there be lipstick?