Help, All My Beers Taste Belgian

[adam]

ive just poured 2 batches down the drain - not that they tasted bad, but they all taste like Begian beers (kind of spicy/estery).
This might not be the best description but i hope you get what i mean.

I still have 2 batches to pour out and from what i just tasted - maybe a third!

The only thing these beers have in common is saf 34/70 yeast (brewed at 10-14 degrees) - i have used this yeast through the winter without any probs though.

unfortunately my garage sits at around 30 degrees in summer - so secondary fermentation is a bit to hot - could this be my problem?

FYI the beer always tastes fine after a couple of weeks (still young obviously) but then slowly goes "belgian on me"!

the brews include kits and bits, all malt and ESB fresh wert.

interestingly i have made a coopers heritage bitter (with supplied yeast) and had no probs.

i have read on the Palmer site that not rinsing chlorine out properly can result in a similar flavour - but i always rinse my gear 2 to 3 times.

Can i have some wild yeast going nuts in the garage? although this doesnt really explain the coopers yeasted brew going ok.

anyway i am open to all suggestions
and for those of you that brew great belgian beers PLEASE forgive me for my poor description.

 

[tangent]

secondary fermentation is alot too hot

 

[Ross]

Adam,

Hard to know without tasting one - I'd be taking to a brew shop or visiting a few brewers round Brizzy for their opinion... Why don't you secondary ferment in the fridge - not normally too hard to fit the bottles in, even if you have another brew going - or get a 2nd fridge, non-working if short of cash & chill with frozen bottles - or one of those big can coolers from Bunnings. With the extreme temps in Brizzy this last few weeks, you must have a good garage if only lifting to 30c - I'm guessing, maybe even higher... This really won't be doing your lagers any good at all...

cheers Ross

 

[Mr Bond]

Use an ale yeast for summer that is more tolerant of warmer temps(20/22c)and keep the 34/70 for winter.

Use an old fridge or cooler for secondary maybe,you obviously have a way of maintaining your low temps in primary so just replicate that for secondary.

 

[adam]

thanks Ross
ur right, by the time my car engine (5.7litre) adds to the temp its closer to 35! (just measured it)
I have 1 fridge plus 1 brewing freezer in there plus 400 grolsch bottles, washing machine, 2 pushies and various boxes - ie chockers, cant fit anything else in

Sadly, i might just have to drink james squire pilsner for three months of the year.

 

[adam]

thanks also to Tangent and Brauluver
well i have made some pretty good brews in my time but am starting to become disillusioned with it all.
There are so many legends on this site (i dont post too often but i have read thousands of posts over the last 3 years) - i have tried everything i have read (except all grain).
ie i steep or partial mash grains, boil my hops, have tried many yeasts, have a fridge for cold conditioning, have a temp controlled freezer for fermenting in and have put on 10 kilos in the pursuit of great beer!
but i cannot control my secondary fermentation temps (ie no room for third refrigeration device.)
i just bought a tap a draft (i know its had some bad press) but will be able to 2nd ferment in my freezer - this is probably my last hope.

 

[sosman]

The flavour you describe doesn't fit the description of chlorophenols, which you can get if chlorine gets into your brewing (and only needs very small amounts). If you can't get the temperature down maybe you should try to stick with the coopers yeast which is supposed to be fairly heat tolerant.

If you can figure out some temperature management then your brewing will be a lot less stressful and you will have far more control over the outcome.

 

[Ross]

If you have a brew fridge, it's just a case of secondary fermenting in it before you put another down - Once the beer has carbonated, storing it warm will not be as bad as what you're doing now. Try brewing with ale yeasts in the summer & build up your lager stocks during winter. You have more than a lot of brewers, who make perfectly good beer. Adapt to the conditions & you'll be making great beers in no time ...

cheers Ross

 

[dicko]

Hi Adam,
Don't lose your enthusiasum.
Two things to keep very closely in perspective:
Cleanliness and temperature.
The biggest problem that the HB'er has is cleanliness of the fermenter, water used if not boiled, and un boiled adjuncts, but all that aside the main source of contamination is in the fermenter tap.
Dismantle the tap at the end of each brew, wash it and sanitise it, (not with sodium metibisulphide) and clean the fermenter thoroughly.
Try to maintain the fermentation temps at close to the recommended temps for ale yeast is 18 to 22 deg. Lager yeasts should be kept at the recommendede temps
Back to cleanliness:::
If you bottle then your cleanliness regime needs to be spot on.
Racking and bottling buckets need to be sanitised, bottles need to be spotlessly clean and sanitised and don't forget the tap in every situation.
Don't lift the fermenter and cause a "suck back" through the fermentation lock, just remove it before you move it.
There are many other situations that may cause an infection in the beer and I am sure that others may add to this info.
I hope this helps,
Cheers

 

[adam]

thanks sosman - ur right, i didnt have these probs over the last couple of summers when using coopers yeasts.

Always greatful for ur posts Ross - i didnt realise that 2nd fermentation and later storage temps could cause such a difference.

thanks for ur support dicko - and now that i think of it, all these brews would have been racked with morgans liquid finings - perhaps some little bugger got in there and caused an infection - is still heartbreaking though!

 

[Weizguy]

adam,

If I may give you my hypothesis...before I extoll the virtues of wheat beer.

Most lager yeast is quite temp tolerant, yet not to the extent of abuse it gets at your place, dude. No disrespect, of course. :excl:

Chris White and other yeastophiles say that if U have to ferment a lager at warm temps, U should use a lager yeast, rather than an ale yeast. U will get more fruity esters (asyour odd flavours appear to me) than a normal lager, but also expect the underlying lager cleanness.
I've had a Bohemian Pils yeast produce me a batch of beer where the pineapple esters overpowered the large hit of Saaz hops (luv them Saazers). Too stinkin' hot!
I'd suggest the WhiteLabs California Lager yeast. Not too shabby at higher temps, and will allegedly make an excellent Marzen when fermented cold.

I'm getting to Weizen bit soon, but first I must discuss the drinking attitude that you should investigate. "Drink Less, Drink Better". If you can wait and leave the brew in the fridge, after racking to secondary, until just before bottling, you may find the resulting beer more pleasing. It'll just take up the fridge a bit longer. Recently made a Czech pils (triple decoction, 7th ag) which took about 10 weeks from grain to gut. Great beer. Great beer (for emphasis).

Or...you can make more of your lager in Winter and stash it away somewhere cool(ish)...

Or...discover wheat beer. Molly would say, "Do your gut a favour". Wheats have been known to aid weight gain in brew-consuming adults. You can make light wheat, dry wheat, fruity wheat, spicy wheat and hoppy wheat beers. All at higher temps, but some yeast will give U xs phenolics. Witbier is wheat beer. I have heard from several sources that the Hoegaarden yeast, or its commercial equivalent, are quite heat tolerant. Some wheat yeast boast flavours of lychee & bubblegum. I'd like to assault my tastebuds in that way. :beerbang:

Search the forum/web for wheat beer recipes, or don't brew your beer too quick.

Here's a saying I like: " If you don't have the time to make a good beer, you won't". So true! :super:

Seth (B.Sc.) - the yeastophile

 

[Weizguy]

...or R U talking about fusels.
Maybe leaving too much yeast in the bottles or too long in fermentor on old yeast?

...like drinking paint thinners, diluted with your beer?

More fridge time for the beer would be the way to fix that issue, if it was the issue at hand.

Seth Stickybeak
That'll be 2 cents for this opinion.

**edited to allow gratuitous praise of wheat beer. Did I say yummmm? **

 

[tangent]

i hate to hear the phrase "tasting Belgian" to mean negative
i don't have refrigeration other than 1 disgusting fridge containing one keg and one brew cold conditioning. I'm using the old ice block in a bath of cold water trick for fermenting.
Whilst i am sweating my arse off at the moment and ruining my keyboard (no a/c atm) my belgian ale is back down to 20C (took a lot of block changes today though)
My setup is all pretty "agricultural" in design, just enough to get the job done and not a step more, but the beers are tasting pretty damn good. Even my weird experimental brews
i really do wish that i brewed a few lighter wheats and APAs for the hot weather though. I can drink like a beer monster in this heat, maybe even a lager.

Ross - times like these, I wish i had your variety on tap.

edit-typo

 

[Ross]

Ross - times like these, I wish i had your variety on tap.

[post="100078"][/post]​

times like these - i agree - variety is the spice of life - just love working my way up & down the font - enjoyed, APA, Brown, Porter, wheat, & summer ale tonight Mmmmm :chug:

 

[steve the pom]

O.k. en wat zo verkeerd is met de smaak van een Belgisch bier? het kon als piss geproeft hebben zij bier in Engeland roepen :blink:

 

[sosman]

...or R U talking about fusels.
Maybe leaving too much yeast in the bottles or too long in fermentor on old yeast?

...like drinking paint thinners, diluted with your beer?

More fridge time for the beer would be the way to fix that issue, if it was the issue at hand.

[post="100068"][/post]​

I'm only too willing to be corrected on this but IIRC fusels happen during "normal" fermentation. Too long in the fermenter is apparently associated with burnt rubber taste from autolysis - I have never tasted this. As for fusels, I have an 11.5% "Belgian Tripel" on tap at the moment. It has a lot more kick and heat than I would have imagined from 11.5% which I attribute to fusels.

I am not convinced that more fridge time would have any effect on fusels.

 

[warrenlw63]

I have an 11.5% "Belgian Tripel" on tap at the moment. It has a lot more kick and heat than I would have imagined from 11.5% which I attribute to fusels.

I am not convinced that more fridge time would have any effect on fusels.

[post="100180"][/post]​

I'm picking this beer makes your head feel really great the next day Sosman? :blink:

Warren -

 

[jimmyjack]

Adam, your avatar says your from Bulimba. My suggestion would be to get to know the boys at oxford 152. I am pretty sure they would be only to eager to help with your problem and even be willing to give out some yeast slurry from time to time. What a great resource at your door step. i ve met a couple of the brewers and they are really good guys. As for a quick fix. I too have recently brewed a beer that tasted like a bad belgian. It was very estery and warm alcahol on the back end. It was from my primary ferm temp being too high not my secondary temp. I got a fridge and thermo controler as a result. Keep your chin up son and keep brewin!!