Hazy Pilsoners

[Jethro]

Ive done three all grains now @ Pils and a Baverian/Dunkel I mashed and batch sparged them all and Im reasonably happy with the results but the Pilsons have a fairly strong haze ( similar to a wheat bear) what could be causing this.I used malt craft pilson malt on thepils and hoefner munich on the dark lager. I suspect maybe my grain mill (mincer type) or maybe the filtered water withot adding calcium Any Ideas anyone Cheers
Jethro

 

[Tony M]

Jethro,
A few Palmer pointers.
Symptom: The (finished) beer is hazy/cloudy.
Cause 1: Chill haze This is the number one cause of cloudy homebrew. It is caused by an insufficient cold break during cooling after the boil.
Cure: Use a wort chiller.

Cause 2: Starch If you made an all-grain beer and had incomplete conversion, or added/steeped a malt that needed to be mashed to an extract batch, then you can have residual starches in the beer that will cause cloudiness.
Cure: Watch the mash temperature and mash longer next time.

Cause 3: Yeast Yeast strains that have low flocculation, such as German Hefeweizen, will cause the beer to be cloudy.
Cure: Use a different yeast strain if you want a clearer beer.

In all cases, cloudiness can be combated by adding fining agents (e.g. isinglass, gelatin, Polyclar, bentonite) after fermentation. When all-grain brewing, the clarity can be enhanced by adding Irish Moss towards the end of the boil.

-------------------------
Your water wont be the problem. The less ions the better with a lager.
Irish moss in the last 15 minutes of the boil works really well (1/2 a whirlfloc tab in 23litre is good) you can see all the crap snotting together in the cooker.

 

[Jethro]

Thanks Tony for that info, but Im not sure what the problem is still
1.) I used an emersion chiller and cooled down to 20 deg in under 15 min
2.) I mashed for 90 min between 65 and 67 deg ( possible thermometer is inaccurate)
3.) used saflager W 34-70 never had problems before with this yeast.
4.) used irish moss and even used gelatine last 2 days in the fermenter for my last pils (big sin as it also strips flavour and aroma).
Maybe I over crushed the Grain? or mashed to hot? I used to drain the boiled wort through a sterilized hop bag into my fermenter with my partials maybe I could try this. Anyways practice makes perfect one hopes :huh: Cheers
Jethro

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Next AG brew do a iodine test to check conersion is complete b4 sparging

To reduce haze:

1. Stepmash

2. Add salts to the mash liquor if using very soft water

3. Boil longer and harder

4. Cold condition for at least 3 weeks

Jovial Monk

 

[Justin]

I wouldn't worry about the sterilized hop bag, I don't think this would catch anything that would stop the haze forming. I can only recommend what the others above have suggested apart from asking are you sure you added the irish moss?

I'm tipping you did as you said, but I just recently on my last Aussie Pale ale batch forgot to add the irish moss (the result of too many beers, simultaneously watching the Aus vs Eng rugby match and cooking tea on the BBQ while brewing the beer). Anyway, i flat out forgot to add the irish moss until I tapped the keg, poured a glass and hmmmm that's very cloudy. My cloudiest beer (maybe my only cloudy beer except for wheats??) to date and I put it solely down to no irish moss. I didn't remember not adding it until I poured the beer.

Anyway, good luck with finding the problem. Could be worse though, it could have been something that affected the taste. Serve in stone/ceramic steins and drink up

Cheers, JD

 

[Gulf Brewery]

Hi Jethro

Is the haze there when the beer is warmed? If it isn't, there is a fair chance it is a chill haze which may help to narrow down the problem. Does the beer taste yeasty or have any off flavours?

I have found using irish moss or similar is the best way to get a good pils.

I only ever use single step infusion mashes with my pils and they always drop clear.

Cheers
Pedro

 

[wedge]

Did you do a full wort boil?

 

[bonk]

sorry for the slight thread hijack,

where abouts would i be able to get iodine from. something in the local chemist shop or ????

thanks

 

[Justin]

Yep. They have little bottles of it under the name of Benodine (I think??) or you can get a Tincture of Iodine as well. It looks a bit dear at about $9 for a 30-40ml bottle but don't worry it will last you years and years. Do you use iodophor? This is another source.

Cheers, Justin

 

[Hoops]

I just recently on my last Aussie Pale ale batch forgot to add the irish moss (the result of too many beers, simultaneously watching the Aus vs Eng rugby match and cooking tea on the BBQ while brewing the beer). Anyway, i flat out forgot to add the irish moss until I tapped the keg, poured a glass and hmmmm that's very cloudy. My cloudiest beer (maybe my only cloudy beer except for wheats??) to date and I put it solely down to no irish moss. I didn't remember not adding it until I poured the beer.

DAMNIT! DAMNIT! DAMNIT!
you just reminded me JD that I haven't used it in my last 2 ales.
Hopefully they don't turn out as clody as a glass of muddy water

 

[Jethro]

Thanks for all the info lads Well I Gave it a pretty decent boil Wedge (90 minute rolling) and evaperated about 12 Litres so I dont think that is a problem Racked into a secondary for three weeks total in the fermenter and lagered at 0 deg for 2 weeks. This is a beer that was cloudy from the mash tun to the glass I used 1/2 tablet of Irish moss. I recon the problem is in the mashing! whether it is temperature or water chemistry, who knows any way my new Barley crusher just arrived so I hope to have a better crush in future. I will as you suggest Jovial and try an iodine test (when I work out how to do it.) and look to purchase a more acurate thermometer. By the way my last pils only burnt the sugars down to a S.G. of 1.016 (expecting 1.008 to 1.010) is this a sympton of bad sugar conversion. also my copper emersion regardless of how much I clean it before use comes out of the boilerpolished s a sygnificant level of copper being desolved in the Wort? Well I guess having only done 3 A.G beers I got a lot to Learn.
Cheers Lads
Jethro
P.S. when I learn how to use a computer Ill probably work out how to Put my Posts in the right catagory

 

[pint of lager]

Buy a 500ml bottle of Betadine from the chemist. Make sure you get the brown bottle, not the blue (which has a lower concentration of iodine).

Put about a teaspoon of grains from the mash on a plain plate, drop on about 2-3 drops of iodine, wait 10-20 seconds, the iodine goes black if there is still starch present. If all conversion has taken place, the iodine stays brown.

Just so you know what you are looking for, try an iodine test at the very start of the mash. Lots of starch, lots of black.

If you leave a fully converted sample a while, you can see traces of black directly under the husk, as the iodine seeps in and reaches an unmashed section of the grain.

I did an iodine test for a few mashes, they all were converted, haven't done a test for the last 50 or so brews.

The iodine is also used for sanitising, 2.5ml per litre, contact time 10 minutes. Drain, then use equipment. 500ml will last a while.

 

[Jethro]

Thanks Pintof the goodstuff Ill do that Cheers Jethro

 

[deebee]

POLager,

Do you sanitise fermenters with betadine? Do you rinse afterwards or just drain well?

 

[Tony M]

Jethro,
my HLT, boiler and chiller are all copper. I have lived in this house with its copper plumbing for 36 years and i havn't turned green yet. They say copper is good for arthritis and I havn't got any, so I dont worry about it.
The acid wort will strip the copper oxide off the chiller so that it presents bright, however the wort is not sufficiently acid to attack the copper itself to any discernable degree.

 

[Jethro]

Thanks for that Tony, I was also wondering about what alloys may be in the tubing, I have the softer more maluable type. anyway as you said copper is a standard pipe for all water and should do no harm. copper causes hazes in wine but the acid is far stronger and I have never heard of problems with beer. My problem is more likely temp conrol in the mash and intend to take my thermometer to work to check its calibration, Cheers Jethro