Haze. How Do I Tell Which One It Is ?

[justsomeguy]

Hi all,

Got some haze problems I want to sort out.

The last few AG batches I've made have all had haze problems. Its not chill haze because the haze is still there even at room temperature. Gelatine hasn't cleared them up either. it made a little difference but not much.

After a bit of research it appears that my haze problems may be a protein haze or caused by excess tannins. Now what I want to know is the following, how do I tell which one it is ? Any easy test to figure this out, or am I going to have to change several things during my next brew session and hope for the best ?

Any idea's ?


gary.

 

[Adamt]

Well, tannins are pretty noticeable, they make your mouth pucker up.

A couple of simple suggestions are to boil harder for the first 15-20 minutes (to aid coagulation of hot break) and to use kettle finings like polyclar.

 

[matti]

You can taste astringency from tannins.
It is opposite to slick feeling on the tongue.
A severly hopped beer that hasn't been filtered will be hazy too.
JSG if it tastes good. close your eyes and drink it.

What is your brewing process?

 

[lobo]

adamt, isnt polyclar a racking fining?, eg, after fermentation, drop the temp of the beer and rack onto it for chill haze?

Lobo

 

[goatherder]

If gelatine doesn't clear it up then it might be a yeast haze. According to a recent article in BYO, gelatine is good for protein and polyphenol hazes (tannins) but won't take care of suspended yeast. So either the haze is a yeast haze or there is some problem with the way you administered the gelatine. Is the yeast you used a strong flocculator? Some yeasts I have used take 2-4 weeks to drop bright in the keg or bottle.

If you want some background info on hazes this document is excellent:

http://www.brewerssupplygroup.com/pdf/know...eBeer_Hazes.pdf

 

[goatherder]

adamt, isnt polyclar a racking fining?, eg, after fermentation, drop the temp of the beer and rack onto it for chill haze?

Lobo

There are a number of fining products branded as polyclar. Polyclar PVPP is a post fermentation fining and there are others which are kettle finings.

 

[justsomeguy]

You can taste astringency from tannins.
It is opposite to slick feeling on the tongue.
A severly hopped beer that hasn't been filtered will be hazy too.
JSG if it tastes good. close your eyes and drink it.

What is your brewing process?

Hmm, I'm starting to think that it might be tannins. The beers don't feel slick, but have a slight bite on the tongue, not a carbonation kind of bite though. One's an APA and the other a blonde ale. The blonde ale certainly isn't highly hopped to that gets a hop haze out of the equation.

When I've been sparging (batch) I've dumped the first runnings into the kettle then refilled the mash tun with near boiling water, giving it a stir then dumping out the next lot. Could the grain bed get too hot and cause tannin extraction ? Does this happen ?

Adamt,

From memory there was some hot break formed but not big chunks, mainly fine stuff which is what I normally get. I did get a really great hot break in my last oktoberfest (still in the fermenters). It looked like someone had dumped a bag of confetti into the kettle !

gary

 

[lobo]

cool, thanks for that.

lobo

 

[matti]

When I've been sparging (batch) I've dumped the first runnings into the kettle then refilled the mash tun with near boiling water, giving it a stir then dumping out the next lot. Could the grain bed get too hot and cause tannin extraction ? Does this happen ?

I am not sure if you have temperature gauge BUT if you sparge with water with that is hotter then 78 you release tannins from the husk.

 

[justsomeguy]

If gelatine doesn't clear it up then it might be a yeast haze. According to a recent article in BYO, gelatine is good for protein and polyphenol hazes (tannins) but won't take care of suspended yeast. So either the haze is a yeast haze or there is some problem with the way you administered the gelatine. Is the yeast you used a strong flocculator? Some yeasts I have used take 2-4 weeks to drop bright in the keg or bottle.

If you want some background info on hazes this document is excellent:

http://www.brewerssupplygroup.com/pdf/know...eBeer_Hazes.pdf

Yeast was 1056 which I've not had problems with before. Always dropped bright for me. I just added the gelatine the way I normally do. Initially I was thinking yeast but I was under the impression that gelatine would cause the yeast to drop out.

The article you linked to looks interesting too.

Thanks,

gary

 

[berapnopod]

I am not sure if you have temperature gauge BUT if you sparge with water with that is hotter then 78 you release tannins from the husk.

Not exactly.

You'll release tannins if the pH is too high in the mash.

I occasionally had problems with cloudy beers which was probably because the mash pH was too high. So whats your mash pH?

Berp.

 

[Stuster]

JSG, what malts were you using in these beers? Is there any chance it could be an infection? (any off flavours?)

 

[justsomeguy]

JSG, what malts were you using in these beers? Is there any chance it could be an infection? (any off flavours?)

JW Traditional and crystal.

I did have an infection recently but I think I've got that under control. A good clean , bleach soak and Iodophor appears to have fixed that one.

I might try doing a small batch keeping the sparge water temp down a little and see what effect that has. Can't do a full batch at the moment , the fermenting fridge is busy for another two weeks

gary