Grain Crush

[dicko]

Hi Boots,
I found with the Marga that if you went too close with the bottom roller gap it tore the grain husks and I got a stuck sparge but efficiency did increase.
The trick is to find that happy medium with the Marga.
I also found that if I turned it faster (with a drill) it gave a different crush than if I turned it by hand. With a drill the crush was finer.
I also found that if you went too fast it would again, tear the husks.
I hope this may help
Cheers

 

[dicko]

Hi POL,
I deleted the pic, yes it was a tad large.
It's a wonder someone had not commented before this.
BTW the Marga is a three roller mill.
Cheers

 

[Boots]

I had always previously done two passes (wide then narrow). IMO i got better results this time with the two passes at narrow than previously which is why I wanted a few opinions as this goes against everything I've read. The malt that I'm using does seem to have quite a range in sizes, and in the 5KG of the base malt, I found 3 small twigs and a little bit of straw (all of which were removed before crushing.

The two gap settings I use I got from a document a US brewer made from a compilation of brewers notes on the marga.

Dicko - I think (from memory) that the gap beneath was larger than the gap above, but I've never actually measured it. And I can understand what you're saying about the speed affecting crush quality. If you go really fast, the grain actually feeds through noticeably slower, so the roller must be slipping on the grains tearing them.

Cheers for the responses .. next brew I will do a pass at .85 and then for the narrow pass, I'll go tighter than i did on this one to see the diff.

 

[pint of lager]

Cheers Dicko, big pictures are a common trap for posters.

 

[SJW]

I find that running the grain thru twice, 1st time just to break the husks and a second to crush the grain, works for me. And i am not to concerned how fine the crush is as i mash in a 55 litre mash tun/esky so there is no danger of stuck sparges.

 

[Stagger Inn]

I made my own mill and used a straight roller instead off a diamond shape IMO it gives a far better crush also a little finer. I have a good mixture of husks to flour, i use a copper manifold with cuts in it and never had a stuck mash.


:super:

 

[dicko]

Hi Boots,

Quoted in your recent post:

Dicko - I think (from memory) that the gap beneath was larger than the gap above, but I've never actually measured it.

The gap at the top most definately has to be wider than the gap at the bottom for the mill to crush quickly.
I know because when I first got the Marga I wasn't aware of the different gaps and the first two crushes took forever and I was only doing partials.

Good luck with the brew tonight.

Cheers

 

[dicko]

Stagger Inn,

I made my own mill and used a straight roller instead off a diamond shape IMO it gives a far better crush also a little finer.

What diameter are your rollers and is it a two or three roller mill?
Can you post a pic of it?

The Marga mill has a very fine knurl on its rollers but because they are a small diameter the grains tend to slip on the rollers before they feed through.

I now have a three roller Crankandstein and the knurl on the bottom roller is finer than the top but the rollers themselves are larger in diameter and work very well with very little husk damage.

It takes a bit of fiddling around with most adjustable mills until you get the crush you want and as POL said, it still depends on the grain the maltsters used originally as grain size can change from year to year due to varying rainfall / use of fertilisers and weather in general and all this may be taken into account.

When I went from the Marga to the Crankandstein I gained on an average of 5% in efficiency but the Crankandstein does not tear the husks like the Marga.

To adjust mine I started off at a gap that I thought was pretty close and each brew I did, I went down one click on the adjuster to narrow the gap. When I got a stuck sparge I went back one click and I have left it there.
I consistently get 72% efficiency using the "no sparge" method and if I sparge I get 76% ( I am happy with the 72% because this method is a lot easier )

Cheers

 

[Trough Lolly]

Interesting thread guys,
I too use a triple roller Marga Mulino that I bought from Grumpies a couple of years ago. The tiny hopper is a PITA and I'm gonna rip up some MDF to hold a whole brewful when I get the time...
I haven't changed the settings since it arrived in the mail. I have a finer crush than yours, Ausdb, and I have never re-run the crush through the rollers - to me, once is enough otherwise I'll end up with flour everywhere.
As far as results go, Promash has told me that I get between 82% and 85% efficiency and I use Bairds, IMC and Weyermann malts. I'm very happy with those results, and whilst I get clear sparges and clear beer, I have no intention of changing any aspect of my milling setup. 80%+ when batch sparging will do me fine (pardon the pun)!!

Cheers,
TL

 

[sosman]

As far as results go, Promash has told me that I get between 82% and 85% efficiency and I use Bairds, IMC and Weyermann malts. I'm very happy with those results, and whilst I get clear sparges and clear beer, I have no intention of changing any aspect of my milling setup. 80%+ when batch sparging will do me fine (pardon the pun)!!

[post="54039"][/post]​

TL that is similar to what I get, 85-88% with lighter beers and 82-85% for bigger beers (batch sparging). This figure also seems to depend on how I do the split between mash volume and sparge volume.

The crush I am getting with my two roller jobby is like so:

I can go finer but mashing and sparging start to slow down. My time is more valuable to me than $0.50 worth of grain.

 

[Trough Lolly]

Agreed Sosman...and nice closeup.

BTW, is there some oats in that crush?! Looks good enough to add milk to and have for breakfast!!

Cheers,
TL

 

[Stagger]

View attachment 2291View attachment 2292

Rollers are Stainless steel and 50mm dia, as i said i used a straight knurl. I also run at 85%


Cheers

Stagger

 

[pint of lager]

I am very impressed with everyone's efforts at mill building.

A question/suggestion to Stagger. Do you have a dog? That great work of ss art you have posted is sitting on top of a plastic bucket, with the power cord draped to the side. I know our dog would tear past and knock the lot flying. That would be a sad sight.

 

[Tony M]

Stagger,
I'm just curious. Is that motor 750W & 1440 RPM and your gearing 1:1 ?

 

[Stagger]

Yes and yes I was going to put a large pulley on to slow it down but the crush is great. I do 8KG in around 3-5 mins I know time is not important but what the hay.


Stagger :beerbang:

 

[Tony M]

Yes and yes I was going to put a large pulley on to slow it down but the crush is great. I do 8KG in around 3-5 mins I know time is not important but what the hay.


Stagger :beerbang:

[post="54088"][/post]​

Well stagger, youv'e got me thinking now. I have 65 watts with roller at 40 RPM and I sorta get the same figures as you ----3KG in 8 minutes!

 

[nonicman]

I mix in 50 to 100mls of water to the dry grain and let it sit for 15 min.

[post="56790"][/post]​

Quote from the Borret's Mill Borret's Mill thread.

Gave this a try and the crush looks good, the husks are more alot more intact that when dry. The downside is I'm looking at Dicko and Tony's motorised mills in a new light, I found it took a bit more effort to hand crush the moistened grain compared to dry with the same settings and grain.

Edit: added link

 

[Borret]

How much muck ends up on the rollers. Do you end up with more mess to clean off or is it much the same?

Borret

 

[nonicman]

How much muck ends up on the rollers. Do you end up with more mess to clean off or is it much the same?

Borret

[post="57002"][/post]​

It was pretty much the same. Added 100ml of water to 8kg of grain, mixed with hands.

Jason

 

[Vlad the Pale Aler]

Trough Lolly-

When did you become a disciple of Father Jack?.
Cant believe he never got a shot at the top job.