Goodbye Bronwyn

[Lemon]

@mb&b,
I agree management should be able to manage.

Rostering arrangements and alternatives or variations are commonly included in agreements. If you want to make a significant change you have to bargain. Fair enough.

Metro don't have to make a new agreement, changes to legislation means EBAs are not required to be renewed. The company can elect to make pay increases without a new agreement.
But, they want something for their proposed increase. So they need to bargain.

Withdrawing labour is a legitimate , and possibly the only, bargaining measure employees have.

Those efficiency improvements are again part of agreements, that the company have previously entered into. I.e. Reduction in numbers, major change, automation, etc. generally agreed to without much foresight for these type of game changing issues in the future.

 

[manticle]

Those values can be attributed to many in our society.

But at least she was prepared to express what a large percentage of the general population (silent majority) thinks/agrees with and not the one sided views that the are touted by the very vocal minority

As a country we are apathetic and don't feel strongly enough about the issues that are going to bite us in the backside in the not too distant future

Both major parties were scared sh----ss that their hold on political power was seriously in question that they moved heaven and earth to discredit and shut the party down

Wobbly

You know she was originally a member of one of those parties don't you?

I find it hilarious, given how badly one nation fared in recent elections, that anyone actually believes they were ever the remotest threat to the major parties.

They're a fringe party, expressing the perspective of a couple of disgruntled rednecks and one single mum who once ate some bad african takeaway.
Hardly the silent majority (much closer to a vocal minority actually) but if those who sympathise with them want to stay silent, I'm all for it.

 

[manticle]

I have no doubt there would be train drivers knocking up $140,000 if they put the hours in, I mean that figure wouldn't have just been plucked out of thin air.

Of course it's not pulled from the air. HS are smart enough to avoid libel. What they've done is conflate an absolute possible extreme (some 58year old workaholic getting cpi and performance pay and OT by working every possible weekend, public holiday, early morning, whatever) with the average 80 -90 k per year, (some unsociable hours included) then married that with the opposite potential extreme (driver does 200 km in under 4 hours, still gets paid because they're on a full time wage and that's what happens with full time) then made everyone who reads their shitty paper presume EVERY train driver gets paid a shit ton for doing **** all and they're still trying to get more. Smart propaganda, shit journalism.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

There is a lot in that post that I agree with

Maybe someone can put forth what they think train drivers should actually be paid and what they actually have to do for it

Might make a change from the " Train Drivers are over paid but I dont know why "

 

[malt and barley blues]

CFMEU fined $9,000,000 over the Boral black ban, $12,000,000 wasted on the ChAFTA advertising campaign, there isn't going to be much left in the biccy tin for the CFMEU executives lucrative lifestyles they like to lead.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Got nothing to do with train drivers,........ those horribly overpaid train drivers

 

[butisitart]

you could hire 10 year old kids to drive trains for free. think about it....
modern trains are robotically controlled, fail-safe state of the art things what you can't stuff up.
10 year old kids love the idea of driving trains.
can't go wrong.
you can get around child labour laws by calling it fun.

 

[mje1980]

A 5 year old has made better decisions with more common sense than one of our managers, I should take my kids to work.

 

[malt and barley blues]

Got nothing to do with train drivers,........ those horribly overpaid train drivers

I don't think anyone minds what the train drivers earn. $90,000 as the base rate is fair enough, as is the 17% a fair and generous offer, NEGOTIATION, means just that, each side has to give something, Metro is providing the folding, and the train drivers through their union must make concessions. Expecting to receive a pay rise just as a matter of course isn't on, and neither is calling a strike while negotiations are still in progress.

And when that strikes interferes with other peoples livelihood, and their right to earn money, then they just show them selves for what they are, they don't give a damn for anyone but themselves.

 

[madpierre06]

And when that strikes interferes with other peoples livelihood, and their right to earn money, then they just show them selves for what they are, they don't give a damn for anyone but themselves.

Interesting, isn't that how a number of folks advocate for the right of business to do...run your business as you see fit, and the workers can go f***'emselves?

 

[manticle]

I don't think anyone minds what the train drivers earn. $90,000 as the base rate is fair enough, as is the 17% a fair and generous offer, NEGOTIATION, means just that, each side has to give something, Metro is providing the folding, and the train drivers through their union must make concessions. Expecting to receive a pay rise just as a matter of course isn't on, and neither is calling a strike while negotiations are still in progress.

And when that strikes interferes with other peoples livelihood, and their right to earn money, then they just show them selves for what they are, they don't give a damn for anyone but themselves.

How many times? The strike is not over pay.

 

[malt and barley blues]

How many times? The strike is not over pay.

That is exactly what I just said, Metro has made a fair offer, but the train drivers don't want to make any concessions and in return want 18% . You don't get money for nothing which is what the train drivers want.

 

[manticle]

How is that exactly what you just said?

 

[malt and barley blues]

How is that exactly what you just said?

NEGOTIATION, means just that, each side has to give something, Metro is providing the folding, and the train drivers through their union must make concessions. Expecting to receive a pay rise just as a matter of course isn't on,

 

[manticle]

But they're not expecting to receive a pay rise as a matter of course. They are rejecting the proposed EBA.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

That is exactly what I just said, Metro has made a fair offer, but the train drivers don't want to make any concessions and in return want 18% . You don't get money for nothing which is what the train drivers want.

No. YOU think Metro made a fair offer. The workers do not see it is as a fair offer

I don't think anyone minds what the train drivers earn. $90,000 as the base rate is fair enough,

So its dropped from $140k to $90k now. If we keep going you might get to the point towhere there they are actually paid

 

[malt and barley blues]

No. YOU think Metro made a fair offer. The workers do not see it is as a fair offer


So its dropped from $140k to $90k now. If we keep going you might get to the point towhere there they are actually paid

Your fist statement is actually confirming that the train drivers strike is over money Metro offers 17% they want 18%.

Your second statement, anyone with half a brain would have known the $140,000 was plucked from the top end of the scale and given to the Herald Sun, $90,000 is what the union say is the base rate, so what is your point.

 

[mje1980]

Ever thought about working in politics?

 

[malt and barley blues]

But they're not expecting to receive a pay rise as a matter of course. They are rejecting the proposed EBA.

That is why it is called an Enterprise Bargaining Agreement it has to be negotiated, not just ask for 18% and expect to get it, concessions have to be made.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Your fist statement is actually confirming that the train drivers strike is over money Metro offers 17% they want 18%.

No, its more about conditions

Your second statement, anyone with half a brain would have known the $140,000 was plucked from the top end of the scale and given to the Herald Sun, $90,000 is what the union say is the base rate, so what is your point.