Golden Promise - Your Thoughts?

[Duff]

What are your thoughts on Golden Promise?

I have had two attempts at a Timothy Taylor Landlord clone now with the following receipe. First one with 100% MO came out a treat, but was just a bit 'thin', although colour I thought was spot on for the clone. Here is a pic of it through Doc's beer engine.



When I received some Golden Promise, I brewed the same receipe, except this time in an attempt to provide a little more body, I boiled down 4L of first runnnings to 2L and added back into the kettle. Surprisngly though, the beer came out lighter in colour, and lighter in body. I find that the GP gave a more 'raw' taste to the beer. Here's a pic with the 100% GP, crap pic but it was not as dark as it appears.



How do TTL do it? Even though they are claiming 100% GP, do you think they might toast it a little before use? Sparge low and boil the crap out it? Any thoughts?

-----

06-33 Landlord Bitter

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 40.00 Wort Size (L): 40.00
Total Grain (kg): 7.30
Anticipated OG: 1.042 Plato: 10.54
Anticipated SRM: 4.5
Anticipated IBU: 35.5
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
100.0 7.30 kg. TF Maris Otter UK 1.037 3

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
42.00 g. Fuggle Pellet 5.00 17.3 60 min.
42.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 4.80 16.6 60 min.
20.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 5.20 1.7 10 min.
20.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 4.80 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP013 London Ale

 

[homekegger1]

Duff,

I can't comment on it too much since my experience is very limited. However the last couple of brews I have made(kits and bits) I have used GP both steeped and boiled. I think it has done my brews the world of good. And since I had a good taste of the TTL you took to doc's I can still remember how bloody good it tasted.

Cheers

HK

 

[Guest Lurker]

I think you are correct. There is something other than 100% GP going on. AusDB had a go with I think 100% GP, and I seem to recall it was significantly lighter in colour when compared against bottled TTL, although the body wasnt far off.

 

[user 384]

When I received some Golden Promise, I brewed the same receipe, except this time in an attempt to provide a little more body, I boiled down 4L of first runnnings to 2L and added back into the kettle.

Boiling down run-off will darken the colour, but it will not add body. This is a function of either mash temps i.e higher temps = more dextrins = more body, or grain bill eg more crystal type malts = more dextrins = more body.

Boiling wort will not make it more dextrinous.

Cheers
MAH

 

[kirem]

I would have thought that boiling the wort is actually caramelising the wort, which would also add flavour.

I think this coupled with the right mash temp for body and perhaps the correct yeast are the main aspects to get right to come close to this great beer.

My new brewery should be finished by the weekend. I have 4 bags of GP & the TTL yeast. It is time to start experimenting.

Kirk

 

[Duff]

Boiling down run-off will darken the colour, but it will not add body. This is a function of either mash temps i.e higher temps = more dextrins = more body, or grain bill eg more crystal type malts = more dextrins = more body.

Boiling wort will not make it more dextrinous.

Cheers
MAH

Agreed. However I would thought that a higher mash temp for this beer may not have worked out given it's low OG, hence the trial to add a crystal edge to it with the caramelised first runnings. Will try again a couple of degrees higher and put my new TTL yeast to work on it. (Cheers Kirk). Maybe it is higher attenuating than other British yeast strains.

Brett.

 

[tdh]

100% GP as the base malt could well be true. The way it's worded doesn't prevent them from adding specialty grains or adjuncts.

tdh

 

[Voosher]

100% GP as the base malt could well be true. The way it's worded doesn't prevent them from adding specialty grains or adjuncts.

tdh

Good point.

For a start they add sugar to the cask for secondary fermentation, don't they?

I'll be adding something to my GP. Probably a little choc malt to start with.
With what I've been able to achieve with 100% Maris Otter I can't imagine I'll be able to get close to TTL with only Golden Promise.

 

[Stuster]

I've done one 100% GP a couple of months ago. It did not come out well and the last of it is just about to meet up with the drain. The main problem with it IMO is astringency. This is my fault of course, and this has prompted me to delve into the world of brewing chemistry, a world I had been able to avoid up till now. But even so, it hasn't got much malty flavour to it. I don't think I'll be making another GP only brew in the immediate future.

I think tdh may have hit the nail on the head. From the TT website.

The only brewery to use 100% Golden Promise barley, specially grown in Scotland. One of the last to specify the traditional standard of Pale Ale malt. One of the few of its size to use floor made malt.

So they only use that kind of barley but specify the malting of it (I guess that's what it means). They could also have crystal/chocolate made from that barley. After all this product info is not only for the Landlord, but for all their beers including a Dark Mild.

 

[warrenlw63]

Personally I think they add Brewer's Caramel. :unsure: Not uncommon amongst British brewers. h34r:

Edit: I just read Stuster's comments as I posted my own. It wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility if a brewer the size of Timothy Taylor's were able to have their GP kilned to spec. would it?

Warren -

 

[Duff]

Even though they are claiming 100% GP, do you think they might toast it a little before use?

Sort of what I was eluding to in the original post, in my own highly specific brewers terms :blink:

I have also made an Australian Ale out of it following my stock receipe, subbing it for JW Ale. Came out the same, a real lack of maltiness. They must spec it to their own requirements.

 

[ausdb]

I think you are correct. There is something other than 100% GP going on. AusDB had a go with I think 100% GP, and I seem to recall it was significantly lighter in colour when compared against bottled TTL, although the body wasnt far off.

I tried to caramelise a bit but didn't do a very good job of it (boile about 4l down to 2.5l) but I think it is the key or caramel added later. I also boiled for 90 mins not 60. On the proposed Perth mega brewday maybe we should boil the crap out of some 1st runnings to syrup and see if we can get it a bit darker?

I was also suprised how much flavour could be had from just using one malt! the stuff I had was bairds FWIW

 

[Mr Bond]

I was also suprised how much flavour could be had from just using one malt! the stuff I had was bairds FWIW

Bairds are not floor malted either, which may be a key difference to TT's supplies.Golden promise is only a variety of barley that can be treated in many different ways .
Bairds MO is a nice malt however, So I'm hoping that the GP will be as nice.
I plan to pair my TT yeast with a GP 98% Crystal 2% Choc 2% grist to start with and tweak from there.

 

[Voosher]

I was also suprised how much flavour could be had from just using one malt! the stuff I had was bairds FWIW

Bairds are not floor malted either, which may be a key difference to TT's supplies.Golden promise is only a variety of barley that can be treated in many different ways .
Bairds MO is a nice malt however, So I'm hoping that the GP will be as nice.
I plan to pair my TT yeast with a GP 98% Crystal 2% Choc 2% grist to start with and tweak from there.

That's one way to get extra maltiness.
102% malt grist.

 

[Mr Bond]

SH*T ! I thought I counted those last two toes twice.

 

[kirem]

isn't it actually two heads in Adelaide? or atleast one head and a scar