Ghetto Braumeister - Biab W/ Controller

[ArnieW]

I've been brewing with this kind of rig for a while now. I wouldn't go back to three vessel unless there was something very specific (like parti-gyle) that can't be done with single vessel. Yorg and a few other guys are building similar rigs too.

cheers, Arnie

BrauBushka blog

 

[Bizier]

Arnie, that is awesome, seriously. And Florian I had looked at that rig as well, but it is kinda more tricked out than I am talking. And... it fails the criteria: neither system is remotely ghetto.

The thing that I the main driver of the thread was that it could be done very cheaply and easily without too many tools (i.e. those who are above ground floor and shedless). And if the brewer paid the extra for the Auber PID, then they have programmable step mashing etc. with what is essentially a slightly overgrown kitchen implement.

I am sure there is some op-shop SS flour sifter or something which could be a malt pipe.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

You dont need a malt pipe - your original proposition of just a false bottom to keep the bag off the element and drawing the wort from under the FB. Then pull bag as per normal BIAB. The only reason you would want a malt pipe type device is if you wanted the wort clarity that people tend to expect from a re-circulating system. If however you were willing to accept the proposition that a cloudy wort is not necessarily a bad wort (pre boil) then all you need is to add a pump and an FB to an urn and you are more or less done.... A PID if you want tighter control over teh temp than the urns native controller will give you.

As someone pointed out earlier... You'll get better wort clarity by recurculation... But it will get all messed up pulling the bag. Certainly if you give it a squeeze.

A malt pipe type arrangement gives you a more solid thing to hold together the grain bed you build up, hold it together while you pull the grain out of the liquid. If you use a sleeve with perforations only at teh bottom rather than a seive with holes at the bottom and up the sides, it will also allow you to conduct an effective sparge, because the sparge liquid "must" travel through the grain bed to exit, rather than being able to simply follow the path of least resistance out the side holes. But... It only matters if you want the wort clarity or are sure you want to be able to sparge.

If you were going to use an external controller - then a pre-built urn is probably a waste of money given that you wouldn't be using its controller - however it seems you can buy aftermarket concealed elements from crown urns. Smoeone here on AHB installed one in a converted keg. Beautiful fit, flush bottom, easy to clean - magnificent.

Keg goes ontop of a few inches worth of cabinet to house the pump and controller. Whole device has the footprint of a converted keg and only a few inches higher. perfect.

The elements were about $65
A PID for $35
March pump about $200
Various bibs and bobs of plumbing and electrics $100
keg to convert for the price that people usually pay for kegs......

Get the whole thing built for under $400

A link to the crown element mash tun install by the ingenious Jackson. Simply plopping a BIAB bag in his exact rig would be more or less what has been talked about in this thread. Just need to tidy the pump/controller set-up so the unit is a one piece bit of gear.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=741566

And where he bought the element from

http://www.tobins.com.au/HTML/ClassHTML/175.htm

 

[Zizzle]

I've been toying with the idea for a while, but lacked the time before the brewbot contest entry was due.

Now that I've got it back, I've begun building a ghetto peristaltic pump to give it a try.

http://zizzle-brewbot.blogspot.com/2011/06...rade-plans.html

Does anyone have a good feel for how many times I should be aiming to recirculate the full volume of wort?

 

[ArnieW]

Arnie, that is awesome, seriously. And Florian I had looked at that rig as well, but it is kinda more tricked out than I am talking. And... it fails the criteria: neither system is remotely ghetto.

The thing that I the main driver of the thread was that it could be done very cheaply and easily without too many tools (i.e. those who are above ground floor and shedless). And if the brewer paid the extra for the Auber PID, then they have programmable step mashing etc. with what is essentially a slightly overgrown kitchen implement.

I am sure there is some op-shop SS flour sifter or something which could be a malt pipe.

I look forward to hearing how you go with this. I'm actually in the middle of simplifying my machine a bit more - getting rid of the auto ball valves and just having a pump to recirc and another ball valve to fill to fermenter. I am lucky to have a good shed. cheers.

 

[Bizier]

No, Arnie, I'm making a trad 3v system, and have long set sail on that trajectory. This is purely musing. I'm sure I could build one just from spare parts I have, but a second system would be silly, though I've thought about a really small pilot system for kooky ideas, so perhaps this could come in there.

 

[RobB]

...........I am sure there is some op-shop SS flour sifter or something which could be a malt pipe.

How about those cheap 19 litre SS pots which pop up occasionally in Big W and camping stores (generally around $20)? Take a drill to the bottom and there's your malt pipe.........maybe.

 

[RobB]

Just thinking out loud here, but how about:



(Warning: may contain traces of voile)

A tap in the bucket could remain closed during the recirculating mash and the be opened once the bucket is raised.

It looks like it might work, but I'm sure someone will point out a major flaw.

 

[Bizier]

That is pretty much like my sketches, except for the closed base of the inner vessel. I inherently like the downward flow through grain for minimum oxygen pickup (so it is not creating a 'waterfall'), it just makes for a neat circular loop. My understanding is that the actual Braumeister uses the upward flow through the grain because the plumbing doesn't run on the outside of the vessel.

ED: I don't see any reason to change direction of flow with your 'tap on bucket' idea, it seems most logical to me to recirculate and drain in one constant direction to ensure that your last mash runnings also will be clear. Additionally if the centre vessel drains from the base, then you can set the height so that the base is only just submerged to minimise O2 pickup.

I am really tempted to make a little pilot brewery with this idea. Perhaps just enough finished volume to fill a 9L keg.

 

[matho]

I'm almost finished making my little (10l) braumeister will post all the info when finished





cheers matho

 

[ArnieW]

I'm almost finished making my little (10l) braumeister will post all the info when finished


View attachment 47490


cheers matho

Nice... look forward to details Matho,

cheers, Arnie

 

[RobB]

That is pretty much like my sketches, except for the closed base of the inner vessel. I inherently like the downward flow through grain for minimum oxygen pickup (so it is not creating a 'waterfall'), it just makes for a neat circular loop. My understanding is that the actual Braumeister uses the upward flow through the grain because the plumbing doesn't run on the outside of the vessel.

ED: I don't see any reason to change direction of flow with your 'tap on bucket' idea, it seems most logical to me to recirculate and drain in one constant direction to ensure that your last mash runnings also will be clear. Additionally if the centre vessel drains from the base, then you can set the height so that the base is only just submerged to minimise O2 pickup.

I am really tempted to make a little pilot brewery with this idea. Perhaps just enough finished volume to fill a 9L keg.

Perhaps a hole drilled in the side of the bucket - above the bag, but below the outer wort level - would prevent the waterfall effect.

If you want to knock together a test model, we live about 15 minutes apart and I have a 20 litre urn which you can borrow.

 

[datamike]

I'm almost finished making my little (10l) braumeister will post all the info when finished


View attachment 47490


cheers matho

That looks great! Be sure and post the specifics.

I am in the planning stages of something similar, but with a built-in cooling jacket.

Nice work!

Michael

 

[Bizier]

Cooling jacket?

Are you fermenting in the vessel as well, or are you using the jacket as a wort chiller to get it to pitching temp?

 

[datamike]

Cooling jacket?

Are you fermenting in the vessel as well, or are you using the jacket as a wort chiller to get it to pitching temp?

Not fermenting in it. Just chilling the wort, as with the Braumeister 200L. Just want to build a smaller, cheaper version.

Michael

 

[pimpsqueak]

3) Go to a chinese pot store and they have SS steamer inserts (you are meant to use a trivet in chinese cooking but I use 3 x long SS bolts) that you can use as a false bottom - very cheap

What exactly do you mean by a Chinese Pot Store? I'd really like a false bottom but I can never find one big enough.

 

[Tim F]

I'm making a 15L stovetop herms at the moment - would be easy to pick up a $10 Kmart 10L stock pot, drill holes in the bottom and use that for a malt pipe - would that work? I was just sitting here thinking about my false bottom/options so this was good timing

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Just thinking out loud here, but how about:

View attachment 47489

(Warning: may contain traces of voile)

A tap in the bucket could remain closed during the recirculating mash and the be opened once the bucket is raised.

It looks like it might work, but I'm sure someone will point out a major flaw.

Whats the purpose of the inside bucket? It looks like the system would perform perfectly well without it.

 

[hsb]

Couldn't you just run off into a bucket, remove the grain, then boil in the same vessel, negating the need for any kind of bag/hoist etc?
Not as neat, not BIAB or Braumeister though, just looking in form outside some of these BIAB solutions can seem like a complex answer to a simple problem IMPIO (in my poorly informed opinion)

 

[RobB]

Whats the purpose of the inside bucket? It looks like the system would perform perfectly well without it.

Good point. Perhaps I'm guilty of trying too hard to replicate the Speidel, rather than replicate what it does.

I had thought that the raised bucket would offer an easy way of performing a flood sparge, but BIAB is giving me 80% efficiency into the kettle anyway, so perhaps there's no point.

Since I'm happy with my efficiency and I get good clarity with a combination of whirlfloc and patience, I'm not sure how much I would gain from recirculation, but it's fun to think it through. I think the biggest attraction for me would be the ability to dial in temperature steps, but there are other ways I could approach this.