Gear For Adjusting Ph

[BigDaddy]

I'm now at the point where I'm wanting to look at water pH for my brewing - I've read the wiki's on here and a few other areas on the net, read various books but would like to hear from those who have been there and done that. I live in rAdelaide and have the H20 profile for the water provider here. I also now have Beersmith and had a bit of a play with the H20 profiler hence my questions.

Setup is BIAB and use the water straight out of the tap (untreated/unfiltered) and have experienced lower efficiency.

I note that you can buy pH papers, electronic meters, various salts, 5.2 Stabiliser (in lieu of the salts). Why does one choose one over the other? My feeling at present is to steer away from the 5.2.

Any thoughts/comments - particulary from those who use rAdelaide H20??

 

[Wolfy]

Setup is BIAB and use the water straight out of the tap (untreated/unfiltered) and have experienced lower efficiency.

I note that you can buy pH papers, electronic meters, various salts, 5.2 Stabiliser (in lieu of the salts). Why does one choose one over the other? My feeling at present is to steer away from the 5.2.

Don't choose cheap-o Ebay type pH meters, I've had two and they are both useless or broken. I also dont find pH papers very useful either, since they always seem to read the same value when (various spreadsheets and calculations and changes in light/dark grain say) they should not.

You'll also probably find a bigger difference in efficiency by adjusting the crush of your grain compared to adjusting the pH of the mash.

The other thing that you didn't mention is direct additions of acid, Hydrochloric, Lactic or even Citric acid can all be added if you want to lower the pH.

 

[rowanb]

Just in case you've not seen these threads over at homebrewtalk

Suggestions for simple first steps in water adjustment
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-w...-primer-198460/
Using a ph meter
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/proper-use-ph-meter-203640/

I've been using reverse osmosis water, calcium chloride additions and acid malt in the last 10-12 batches and have tasted improvements - mainly brewing pale lagers. I recently purchased a ph meter and am planning to start taking measurements so I can get an idea of how levels change at different stages of the brewing and fermentation process & in response to different types of malt.

 

[drsmurto]

I'm now at the point where I'm wanting to look at water pH for my brewing - I've read the wiki's on here and a few other areas on the net, read various books but would like to hear from those who have been there and done that. I live in rAdelaide and have the H20 profile for the water provider here. I also now have Beersmith and had a bit of a play with the H20 profiler hence my questions.

Setup is BIAB and use the water straight out of the tap (untreated/unfiltered) and have experienced lower efficiency.

I note that you can buy pH papers, electronic meters, various salts, 5.2 Stabiliser (in lieu of the salts). Why does one choose one over the other? My feeling at present is to steer away from the 5.2.

Any thoughts/comments - particulary from those who use rAdelaide H20??

Given the number of AG brewers in Adelaide who use tap water for their brewing and have been doing so for decades I'd be blaming your lower efficiency on something other than the water. Have you tried other water sources and noticed a change in efficiency?

Adelaide's water gets a bad rap but that is due to the chlorine/chloramine content, both of which can be removed quite easily. The levels of minerals in our water is very good for brewing.

As for measuring the pH - i use both pH paper and a cheap handheld pH meter. Neither are very accurate but given the pH for conversion is a range I'm not too concerned.

The only time i have had a pH outside the target range was when using rainwater (less than 0.1ppm of any of the brewing salts) and 100% pilsner malt. It was higher (6 from memory) but conversion still took place and my efficiency wasn't affected. I repeated the brew and used CaCl2 and CaSO4 and the pH was 5.5 but had no increase in efficiency.

 

[BigDaddy]

Given the number of AG brewers in Adelaide who use tap water for their brewing and have been doing so for decades I'd be blaming your lower efficiency on something other than the water. Have you tried other water sources and noticed a change in efficiency?

Adelaide's water gets a bad rap but that is due to the chlorine/chloramine content, both of which can be removed quite easily. The levels of minerals in our water is very good for brewing.

As for measuring the pH - i use both pH paper and a cheap handheld pH meter. Neither are very accurate but given the pH for conversion is a range I'm not too concerned.

The only time i have had a pH outside the target range was when using rainwater (less than 0.1ppm of any of the brewing salts) and 100% pilsner malt. It was higher (6 from memory) but conversion still took place and my efficiency wasn't affected. I repeated the brew and used CaCl2 and CaSO4 and the pH was 5.5 but had no increase in efficiency.

Thanks for the replies.

DrS
I have not used anything other than Adelaide water at this stage. My mash temps are good (dial thermometer on pot - calibrated). Do u remove the chlorine by boiling it off?
Would it be a fair comment to say that for Adelaide H20 (and good malt), u dont need to worry about testing pH? provided u are not trying to match a specific water profile for your beer style that is.

I dont think it is the grain crush either - comes to me bagged and ready to go on brewday from a great supplier. It may lie with how much i squeeze out of the bag at mash out....i leave it hanging over the pot for about 15mins squeezing whilst bringing the wort to the boil. I was thinking about sparging the bag - which has got to increase my efficiency.

 

[drsmurto]

Thanks for the replies.

DrS
I have not used anything other than Adelaide water at this stage. My mash temps are good (dial thermometer on pot - calibrated). Do u remove the chlorine by boiling it off?
Would it be a fair comment to say that for Adelaide H20 (and good malt), u dont need to worry about testing pH? provided u are not trying to match a specific water profile for your beer style that is.

I dont think it is the grain crush either - comes to me bagged and ready to go on brewday from a great supplier. It may lie with how much i squeeze out of the bag at mash out....i leave it hanging over the pot for about 15mins squeezing whilst bringing the wort to the boil. I was thinking about sparging the bag - which has got to increase my efficiency.

Never done BIAB but it would make sense that sparging would increase your efficiency.

Chlorine can be boiled off but an easier option would be to fill up a fermenter with water the day before brewing and let it sit open, the chlorine will dissipate (mostly). A small amount of potassium metabisulphite (campden tablets) is used by some brewers to remove the chloramine, not sure of quanitites. I didn't bother doing either when using tap water and I don't think many Adelaide brewers do.

If your only concern is pH then i doubt very much that using Adelaide water will result in a pH outside the range. Of course, it is still good practice to check.

So try sparging next brew and see if that increases your efficiency. Water chemistry is one of the last areas i think brewers should be dabbling in. Make sure you have all the other variables worked out.

 

[BigDaddy]

So try sparging next brew and see if that increases your efficiency. Water chemistry is one of the last areas i think brewers should be dabbling in. Make sure you have all the other variables worked out.

Thanks for the advice - will do. I'll advise of the outcome

 

[Wolfman]

Hey big daddy, I to was having efficiency problems using BIAG. I like you hang the bag and squeeze the living shite out of it. So what I do now is squeeze till it's nearly all liquid is out then put it back in the pot stir like crazy for a few mintues then lift and drain again. I have found this has inceased my efficiency. I also have my own mill and changing the settings on the crush seems to help. There seems to be a need for a differant crush size between BIAG and all other systems. Maybe you could get your supplier to change the crush size for you? Good luck.

 

[Filby]

I use Adelaide mains water straight from the gas instant hot water unit (gets it to a near perfect 68deg by the time it reaches the kettle), also BIAB, hang and squeeze, grain is packaged and crushed by Amanda at Beerbelly and I am constantly getting 75-85% efficiency pre-boil for your standard 5kg'ish 23lt batch. Only other thing I do is at the 30min mark I give it another mash with the paint stirrer for a minute or so. Maybe there is something else going on? What are your actual pre-boil efficiency figures?


Fil

 

[BigDaddy]

I use Adelaide mains water straight from the gas instant hot water unit (gets it to a near perfect 68deg by the time it reaches the kettle), also BIAB, hang and squeeze, grain is packaged and crushed by Amanda at Beerbelly and I am constantly getting 75-85% efficiency pre-boil for your standard 5kg'ish 23lt batch. Only other thing I do is at the 30min mark I give it another mash with the paint stirrer for a minute or so. Maybe there is something else going on? What are your actual pre-boil efficiency figures?


Fil

I have done 3 brews since fitting a dial thermometer to my pot to ensure correct mashing temps. The efficiency has been around 70%. I maintain the temps well for conversion and stir the mash every 15mins with my paddle - last 2 mashes were 90mins 5kg & 6.3kg grists. This is why I was wanting to look at water/pH. I had a problem with consistent evap rates which didn't help things either. I think re-dunking or sparging (of sorts) is what I need to do here to improve the extraction.

 

[drsmurto]

I have done 3 brews since fitting a dial thermometer to my pot to ensure correct mashing temps. The efficiency has been around 70%. I maintain the temps well for conversion and stir the mash every 15mins with my paddle - last 2 mashes were 90mins 5kg & 6.3kg grists. This is why I was wanting to look at water/pH. I had a problem with consistent evap rates which didn't help things either. I think re-dunking or sparging (of sorts) is what I need to do here to improve the extraction.

Nothing wrong with 70%. That's what i get.

If it's consistent then you are fine.