Gavroche Clone

[Double A]

I tried a Gavroche (biere de garde) on the weekend and really enjoyed it. Given I've got some Strisselspalt in the freezer I thought I might have a crack at brewing it myself.

I've read Farmhouse Ales which has a bit of info on the beer. OG of 1.072 and finishes at 1.009 for 8.5%. Also states munich, pilsner and sugar are used with an ale yeast.

I'm thinking off mashing low at 63, using some cane sugar and Nottingham to help get close to 87% attenuation.

Comments or criticisms greatly received.

Cheers
AA



Gavroche Clone

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 24.00 Wort Size (L): 24.00
Total Grain (kg): 7.00
Anticipated OG: 1.072 Plato: 17.55
Anticipated SRM: 11.6
Anticipated IBU: 24.7
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes



Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
78.6 5.50 kg. JWM Light Munich Australia 1.038 10
10.7 0.75 kg. JWM Export Pilsner Australia 1.037 2
10.7 0.75 kg. Cane Sugar Generic 1.046 0

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
40.00 g. Hallertauer Mittelfruh 4.5Pellet 4.50 22.2 60 min.
30.00 g. Strisselspalt 2Pellet 2.00 2.5 20 min.


Yeast
-----

Danstar Nottingham

 

[Stuster]

I had this beer recently and really loved it. Great stuff. Would love to make something half as good as this. A hard beer to clone IMO, but I'm sure the experimentation will be fun too.

It seemed to me that there was more going on that just the description in Farmhouse ales. I really got a strong blast of dark fruit, cherries especially. After re-reading FA just now, Markowski does say on p.57 that the St. Sylvestre yeasts do have a more estery profile more like a Belgian beer. I'm guessing that you need a richer yeast contribution than Nottingham would give (though I haven't used it). Perhaps one of the Belgian yeasts (530?) would get you closer. I also think you could use some aroma hops in there, probably the Strisselspalt. I've recently done a Biere de Mars with a good whack of Strisselspalt late on but it's still in primary so I can't tell you yet how well that's worked, but it certainly tasted good. Markowski does say that Gavroche uses German hops though. :unsure:

 

[Doc]

I agree with Stuster, that a Belgian yeast is required.
I personally use WLP500 in my Biere de Garde/Mars, Dubbels etc and it gives a great flavour profile without being too much.
I haven't had the beer in question either, so am not sure of the characteristics of it, but I'd be looking to get a little CaraAroma in there, and drop the sugar back some.

Beers,
Doc

 

[Double A]

Thanks for the comments. Prob will be hard to clone Stuster, but as you say if it's half as good it will still taste alright.

I agree on the hops. Markowski does also say theyre on the high side of the hopping rate for BDGs.

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
35.00 g. Hallertauer Mittelfruh Pellet 4.50 22.2 60 min.
35.00 g. Strisselspalt Pellet 2.00 2.5 30 min.
25.00 g. Strisselspalt Pellet 2.00 1.0 10 min.

I wasnt really sure on the yeast. I've got some 550 I could use. Do you think that would be appropriate at the lower end of its temp range?

Also dropped the sugar back a touch. Though Markowski does say it has about 20% sugar by extract.

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
76.9 5.50 kg. JWM Light Munich Australia 1.038 10
16.1 1.15 kg. JWM Export Pilsner Australia 1.037 2
7.0 0.50 kg. Cane Sugar Generic 1.046 0

Cheers
AA

 

[Stuster]

I'm not sure about 550. It might give too much phenolics, not something I noted in the beer. I think Doc's suggestion of 500 might be better, but I'm not sure that the 550 wouldn't be worth a shot if you've got it to hand. (Always a definite advantage. )

I've just looked at Farmhouse Ales again. He does say 20% by extract for the sugar, but a mixture of brown sugar and sucrose, which would probably affect the flavour (and colour) for the better. It seems surprising that their grain bill is only two malts. I wonder if that information is right. Their website says they use 'special malts' but that might just be the Munich. :unsure:

 

[warrenlw63]

Maybe some Caramunich could be what's missing?? :unsure:

I agree though. Lovely drop. B)

Warren -

 

[Double A]

Sounds like the WLP500 is the go. Will put it on the shopping list.

I was unsure on the brown sugar. I've used it once and lets just say the beer wasnt asking to be drunk in a hurry. Anyone else had bad experiences with brown sugar or is it worth having another go with it?

 

[Quintrex]

Sounds like the WLP500 is the go. Will put it on the shopping list.

I was unsure on the brown sugar. I've used it once and lets just say the beer wasnt asking to be drunk in a hurry. Anyone else had bad experiences with brown sugar or is it worth having another go with it?

Be Really careful which type of brown sugar you use, some can give really rummy flavours, while others leave a really bitter aftertaste. I would either caramelise some of the cane sugar, or fork out for some of the yummy stuff ross stocks (which is used by rochefort).
I have found what I think is an equivalent chinese rich dark sugar, but am yet to try it out.
Q

 

[tangent]

agree with the sugar
if you can be F'd, darken your own sucrose as Quintrex suggests.

 

[neonmeate]

might try to brew this soon - how did your "clone" go? i think ill culture up the yeast out of gavroche itself.

 

[Double A]

Long story but didnt end up going for a clone per se. This has been in the bottle a few weeks so still waiting to see what it comes out like. From the fermenter, it was very dry (FG 1.002) and definitely some woody/herbal notes from strisselspalt.


Batch Size (L): 20.00
Anticipated OG: 1.068
Anticipated SRM: 9.3
Anticipated IBU: 35.7
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Alc/vol 8.76%

87.6 5.00 kg. BB Pale Australia 84.74 2
4.4 0.25 kg. Cane Sugar Generic 7.02 0
5.8 0.33 kg. JWM Wheat Malt Australia 6.04 2
1.8 0.10 kg. Weyermann CaraWheat Germany 1.69 61
0.5 0.03 kg. Weyermann Carafa Special III Germany 0.47 660

Hops
42.00 g. Styrian Goldings 4.8Pellet 4.80 30.4 60 min.
35.00 g. Strisselspalt 2Pellet 2.00 3.5 20 min.
35.00 g. Strisselspalt 2Pellet 2.00 1.8 5 min.

WYeast 3711 French Saison

Single Infusion at 63 and 2.9 L/kg.

 

[neonmeate]

just saw your post... jeez that 3711 is a hungry bugger! all of my beers with it have been 1000 or so FG.

so i'm gunner do this gavroche thing next... here's what i got in mind. ill be culturing it up out of gavroche. for brown sugar i was thinking the billingtons light muscovado (love the rochefort sugar from ross but it is very inyerface). the hops say "german" for this beer so i think northern brewer is the most bieredegardey german hops.

Recipe Overview
Wort Volume Before Boil: 23.00 l Wort Volume After Boil: 20.00 l
Volume Transferred: 20.00 l Water Added To Fermenter: 0.00 l
Volume At Pitching: 20.00 l Volume Of Finished Beer: 19.00 l
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.051 SG Expected OG: 1.071 SG
Expected FG: 1.012 SG Apparent Attenuation: 82.2 %
Expected ABV: 7.9 % Expected ABW: 6.2 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 30.8 IBU Expected Color: 11.5 SRM
Mash Efficiency: 75.0 % Approx Color:
Boil Duration: 90.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 18 degC


Fermentables
Ingredient Amount % When
German Dark Munich Malt 4.00 kg 70.2 % In Mash/Steeped
German Pilsner Malt 1.00 kg 17.5 % In Mash/Steeped
Sugar - Muscovado 0.50 kg 8.8 % Start Of Boil
Sugar - White Sugar/Sucrose 0.20 kg 3.5 % Start Of Boil


Hops
Variety Alpha Amount Form When
German Northern Brewer 8.0 30 g Pelletized Hops 90 Min From End