Fwh Only Beers?

[mje1980]

I have just put a batch of bitter into my brew fridge that used one decent sized fwh addition, and nothing else. Have i made a mistake?? hahaha. Will inform as to how it goes.

P.S i calculated this as a 25 min addition as i always do. Stats are

o.g 1034
IBU's 27.5 ( 55g challenger 6.6% )

Has anyone else had experience with this??

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

I have just put a batch of bitter into my brew fridge that used one decent sized fwh addition, and nothing else. Have i made a mistake?? hahaha. Will inform as to how it goes.

P.S i calculated this as a 25 min addition as i always do. Stats are

o.g 1034
IBU's 27.5 ( 55g challenger 6.6% )

Has anyone else had experience with this??

[post="94125"][/post]​

Hmm, I put that through BeerSmith as FWH and it comes up with IBU's of 59.7.
So without experience at just FWH'ing a beer I don't know. BeerSmith calculates the bitterness of FWH as at least a 60 minute boil.
Would be interesting to see the result.

C&B
TDA

 

[T.D.]

I put my FHW additions in as a 60min boil too - the hops are exposed to the full boil afterall. Did you boil for 60mins?

I would be very interested in the result - please post your findings!

I use FWH all the time - its pretty good I reckon. The only thing I don't like about it is that I find it gives the beer a dulller flavour and almost makes it taste heavier bodied than usual. Other than that its great - a very economical use of hops.

One thing though, I read somewhere that a test was done on beers that used no FWH with an aroma addition, compared to FWH and no aroma addition. The finding was that the beers that used FWH did not have the same hop flavour/aroma characteristics (not as much that is) than a beer with dedicated flavour and aroma additions. That is not to say that you NEED dedicated flavour/aroma additions, just that FWH doesn't seem to be able to replace those additions entirely. My guess though, is your beer will be taste great - in the past I have had the most success with FWH when brewing bitters.

 

[RobW]

In Promash I get 39.8 IBUs (25litres /60 min boil)

 

[mje1980]

Guys, i knew the calculation of the effects of FWH would have many varied responses!!. I use the 25 min addition because i saw other people using that value, and , when i started doing it in addition to normal bittering, it worked out good to my tastes. Anyway, i tasted the wort before i pitched the yeast, and it doesnt taste underbittered, or overbittered, so at least for now it seems o.k. I know that as the wort ferments, it will get more bitter as the sugars are eaten. I will update as the next 7 or so days go by.

P.S i use beertools, which calculates ibu's using an average of tinseth, basic, daniels, rager ( ? ), and a few others i cant recall now. I have always been happy with how my beers have come out in relation to bitterness, both from normal additions, and fwh as a 25 min addition. I guess taste cant be calculated!.


Will update

 

[neonmeate]

i did an APA with 100% FWH earlier on this year to see what would happen. it was 80g Amarillo. I wasn't very impressed with the results. it was mainly bitterness, with only a tiny bit of flavour and no aroma at all.
also, i calculated it as a 30min addition and it came out with 35 IBU or something and then when I actually tasted the thing it had to be closer to 70, which in a pils malt based 5% beer is quite a lot... it wasnt this so-called "smoother" bitterness that you get from FWH, that's for sure.

I'm going back to boiling the hops now.

 

[warrenlw63]

NM.

Not a frequent FWH'r by any means. FWIW it's claimed that the lower-alpha, noble varieties are more well-suited for FWH.

Amarillo comes in around the 7.5-8% AAU region. Probably a bit on the harsh side for this practice. That said I reckon save 'em for late additions. Either that or substitute some of the late additions for FWH.

Warren -

 

[neonmeate]

yeah these amarillos were 9.2% or something. i wonder if the bitterness was stronger than expected cause they are high AA and still had plenty of bitterness left when the wort got to the boil?

still, when i use amarillo for flavour or aroma i get a very strong presence - i would've thought there'd be something there when it was 100% FWH but nope. nothing but bitterness.

i have enjoyed FWH'd beers before but seeing as there was also late additions I wonder how much of the flavour in those beers came from the late hop additions.
i'm not saying anything about emperors or clothes, i'm just making a personal brewing resolution...

NM.

Not a frequent FWH'r by any means. FWIW it's claimed that the lower-alpha, noble varieties are more well-suited for FWH.

Amarillo comes in around the 7.5-8% AAU region. Probably a bit on the harsh side for this practice. That said I reckon save 'em for late additions. Either that or substitute some of the late additions for FWH.

Warren -

[post="94188"][/post]​

 

[T.D.]

still, when i use amarillo for flavour or aroma i get a very strong presence - i would've thought there'd be something there when it was 100% FWH but nope. nothing but bitterness.

[post="94196"][/post]​

Ahh, reading that comment just about killed me! Amarillo is so darn hard to get at the moment and you got nothing but bitterness from them!!! :lol:

 

[neonmeate]

still, when i use amarillo for flavour or aroma i get a very strong presence - i would've thought there'd be something there when it was 100% FWH but nope. nothing but bitterness.

[post="94196"][/post]​

Ahh, reading that comment just about killed me! Amarillo is so darn hard to get at the moment and you got nothing but bitterness from them!!! :lol:

[post="94200"][/post]​

yeah seems a bit of a waste...
the rest of em went nicely dryhopped in my IPA though

i guess in this amarillo drought you could always pour a few stubbies of JS golden ale into the bottling bucket

 

[warrenlw63]

i guess in this amarillo drought you could always pour a few stubbies of JS golden ale into the bottling bucket

[post="94201"][/post]​

Amarillo extractor anybody? :lol:

Warren -

 

[mje1980]

Hmmm some mixed comments here!. How long does everyone "steep" the hops in their wort before it gets to the boil??. My hops must steep for at least an hour by the time they actually get to the boil, and i know the theory behind it has something to do with the time spent at a steeping temp allows some type of oxidisation of the oils to more stable compounds (?), so that not all the bitterness is extracted in the 60 min boil. I could be wrong, but that's what i've read ( How to brew ), and lead to believe. Anyway, im even more keen to taste the finished product.

Part of the reason i did this was because i experimented with splitting the IBU's from my last batch of dark ale between a very small (7g) 60 min addition ( 13.8 IBU's ), and the rest ( 12.8 IBU's ) a decent additon of FWH willamette. I was so happy with the smooth bitterness and hop flavour that i thought i would do an all FWH beer.

P.S i must be lucky, i have 200g amarillo sitting in the freezer!

 

[neonmeate]

yeah with all the sparging time and then heating up it would be close to an hour. i wonder if a longer soak would be worthwhile?

 

[mje1980]

Took a sample today, down to 1015. Tastes good. Not a lot of hop flavour ( i was expecting more ), but there also isnt a lot of bitterness. Will have to wait til it hits 1010 or less i suppose. But going by the taste so far, it looks like the bitterness should be close to the estimated 27 odd ibu's. Not that i have calibrated taste buds , but i usually aim for the same ibu level, and it tastes about the same as other bitters i have made to this og and ibu level. Will post at fg.

 

[fergi]

what does FWH mean guys,i cant work that one out
fergi

 

[mje1980]

First wort hopping.

This is straight from the book How to brew:

"FWH consists of adding a large portion of the finishing hops to the boil kettle as the wort is recieved form the lauter tun. As the boil tun fills with wort ( which may take a half hour or longer ), the hops steep in the hot wort and release their volatile oils and resins. The aromatic oils are normally insoluble and tend to evaporate to a large degree during the boil. By letting the hops steep in the hot wort prior to the boil, the oils have more time to oxidize to more soluble compounds and a greater percentage are retained during the boil.

Only low alpha hops should be used for FWH, and the amount should be no less than 30% of the total amount of hops used in the boil. This FWH additon therefore should be taken from the hops intended for finishing additions. Because more hops are in the wort longer during the boil, the total bitterness of the beer is increased but not by a substantial amount due to being low in alpha acid. In fact, one study among professional brewers determined that the use of FWH resulted in a more refined hop aroma, a more uniform bitterness ( i.e no harsh tones ), and a more harmonious beer overall compared to an identical beer produced without FWH"

Hope this helps mate

 

[Wortgames]

A lot of my brews are FWH only. I just let Promash work out the IBUs for me.

I always use low-alpha hops. It's not a cheap way to do it as you use heaps of hops, but I reckon the end result tastes and smells fantastic.

It is usually sitting at the mash-out temp for half an hour, before turning on the heat and bringing to the boil (another half-hour or so).

 

[mje1980]

O.K the bitter is down to 1.010 and i just tasted it. The bitterness is very smooth, but probably a bit shy of other bitters i've brewed to the same og and IBU's, but there is still enough bitterness there. I will use a 20 min addition and add a little bit more hops next time. The hop flavour, well, i cant say theres heaps, in fact for such a "small" beer i expected more. Aroma wise, nuthin,zip,zilch,nada!. Anyway, i guess i havent really proved much at all haha!. I would definately do this again, but i may try a more flavourful hop ( does that even make sense?! ), eg fuggle, willamette again, cascade etc and see if that makes a difference in flavour. But other than that, i will be going back to splitting the bitterness 50:50 between a small high alpha 60 min addition, and the rest a decent sized FWH addition. Anyway, i'll wait for my next bitter before trying the FWH only again.


BTW, if anything miraculously changes after kegging and gassing, i will post

Cheers