Frothing Beer

[craigo]

3m of 5mm sounds a bit long.
When you start turning the gas down or off to pour you are probably making the situation worse, as when the pressure drops there is not enough pressure to keep the co2 in solution, giving you bubbles in your beer line making for a ****** pour.

I would be chopping it down to about 2m and keeping the dispensing pressure at about 70kpa.
(That's provided its not over carbed in the first place)

ok thanks il try that

 

[craigo]

it seems it might be over carbed i cut the ine down to 2.5 m and i get way to much foam even when its turned down to about 30 or 40 kpa. but it dosent taste over carbonated. any suggestions on what i should do to get the balance of my system right?Ive also got alot of bubbles in my line.

 

[glenwal]

What taps are you using?

 

[craigo]

What taps are you using?

im not sure what type of taps they are i bought them second hand. They look like the cheap ones craft brewer sell.

 

[glenwal]

im not sure what type of taps they are i bought them second hand. They look like the cheap ones craft brewer sell.

If they are these, you'll struggle to get a good pour due to dodgy chinese manufacturing (there are alot of threads about these taps).

 

[craigo]

If they are these, you'll struggle to get a good pour due to dodgy chinese manufacturing (there are alot of threads about these taps).

they they look like them but mine are long shank and the barb is straight.

 

[kevin_smevin]

3m of 5mm sounds a bit long.
When you start turning the gas down or off to pour you are probably making the situation worse, as when the pressure drops there is not enough pressure to keep the co2 in solution, giving you bubbles in your beer line making for a ****** pour.

I would be chopping it down to about 2m and keeping the dispensing pressure at about 70kpa.
(That's provided its not over carbed in the first place)

How will having lines that are too long cause the beer to become frothy? I was under the impression that a longer line would create more resistance and slow the speed of the pour. I always thought that if you have gas coming out of solution in the beer lines it's because your serving pressure wasn't high enough to keep it dissolved? I am genuinely interested in how a longer line can cause beer foaming. I'm sure there is a reasonable answer. I have recently had some trouble with a saison that was very highly carbonated. I was going to increase my line length to combat this issue.

 

[donburke]

it seems it might be over carbed i cut the ine down to 2.5 m and i get way to much foam even when its turned down to about 30 or 40 kpa. but it dosent taste over carbonated. any suggestions on what i should do to get the balance of my system right?Ive also got alot of bubbles in my line.

classic symptom of an overcarbonated beer

i set up my brother-in-law's fridge with a long shank beer tap from my beershop and it does an absolutely fine job

now degas your beer ...

... let it warm, vent the pressure every half an hour or so, rocking a little in between, repeat 4 or 5 times

put keg back in the fridge with gas at 60kpa and give it another 24 hours to settle and cool before trying to pour a beer

 

[glenwal]

they they look like them but mine are long shank and the barb is straight.

Sounds like the same taps, different shanks unfortunately.

How will having lines that are too long cause the beer to become frothy? I was under the impression that a longer line would create more resistance and slow the speed of the pour. I always thought that if you have gas coming out of solution in the beer lines it's because your serving pressure wasn't high enough to keep it dissolved? I am genuinely interested in how a longer line can cause beer foaming. I'm sure there is a reasonable answer. I have recently had some trouble with a saison that was very highly carbonated. I was going to increase my line length to combat this issue.

Long lines won't cause foaming on their own, but if your lines are too long and you crank up the CO2 pressure to compenstate for the slow pour, then you over carb the beer which causes foaming.

 

[pk.sax]

Well, if you have over carbonated the beer, then unfortunately your options are:

1) degas it as said above and recarbonate a little lower.

Or,

2) as you've already found out, turning the gas off and quickly venting the excess pressure from the keg will let you pour some pints in the session until the headspace sucks the excess co2 out again and increases pressure all over again.

I prefer option 2 as I can just do that for a few weeks until it has lost the excess carb and then I hook the gas back up. Personally I find taking it out of the keezer and warming it up to degas to be a hassle not worth it as I'll 200% forget to get it back in there the next day. Once it is in, it doesn't come out of my keezer until its drunk empty.

Also, if the control on your regulator is fiddly then you are in for some trouble. If that isn't accurate you will have continued problems.

 

[craigo]

Well, if you have over carbonated the beer, then unfortunately your options are:

1) degas it as said above and recarbonate a little lower.

Or,

2) as you've already found out, turning the gas off and quickly venting the excess pressure from the keg will let you pour some pints in the session until the headspace sucks the excess co2 out again and increases pressure all over again.

I prefer option 2 as I can just do that for a few weeks until it has lost the excess carb and then I hook the gas back up. Personally I find taking it out of the keezer and warming it up to degas to be a hassle not worth it as I'll 200% forget to get it back in there the next day. Once it is in, it doesn't come out of my keezer until its drunk empty.

Also, if the control on your regulator is fiddly then you are in for some trouble. If that isn't accurate you will have continued problems.

yep my regulator is very fiddly any suggestions on a good one to replace it with

 

[Mike L'Itorus]

it seems it might be over carbed i cut the ine down to 2.5 m and i get way to much foam even when its turned down to about 30 or 40 kpa. but it dosent taste over carbonated. any suggestions on what i should do to get the balance of my system right?Ive also got alot of bubbles in my line.

From BYO magazine, seeing as how you don't seem to bloody believe me, even though I'm right.

If the dispensing pressure is too low, the beer will pour too slowly and excessive foaming can result, to the point where little beer and mostly foam ends up in the glass. Furthermore, over time the beer in the keg will lose carbonation as more CO2 comes out of solution as it attempts to achieve equilibrium with the headspace. At extreme underpressure the beer can become nearly flat. If the dispensing pressure is too high, it, too, can result in excessive foam from the beer pouring too quickly from the tap. With time, the beer will become overcarbonated as more CO2 goes into solution, further complicating the situation.

At lower than the correct pressure, in addition to low carbonation, the line will tend to collect bubbles and pockets of CO2 where it has come out of solution, especially just above the keg and behind the faucet, as well as in places where the temperature is warmer. These pockets will become larger the longer the time period between dispensing beers. The first beer will have a shot of foam, followed by clear beer, followed by more foam. After pouring a few beers, the problem may dissipate, only to return again after a rest. Low-pressure problems also tend to show themselves early when a keg is nearly full.

Italics mine.
Full article here. BYO balancing a draft system

Edit: note, that when they say pressure too low, they are referring to pressure in context with the line length of the system, and not relative to the desired carbonation level.

edit v2: at Yumyumym.....this is similar to having a dodgy prostate. It makes you piss in fits and starts, causing more splashback on your shoes. Or, alternative analogy, for the more sane amongst us, it's essentially the same as when you have 'water hammer' in your plumbing. Air bubbles in the line causing turbulence and uneven pressure distribution throughout the pour.

 

[pcmfisher]

I assumed your beer was not overcarbed as you said you carbed up at 70kpa for a week, which sounds good.

If it is actually over carbed, there's most of your problem. Cheap taps aren't helping your cause either, even though I use them and they pour quite acceptably.

I reckon if your beer lines are too long, even at correct serving pressure the beer is going to be dribbling out like a dick with prostate problems as the klit man/woman/person suggests. It's not going to give you a good pour even if your beer is not over carbed, which will be made worse if you turn the gas down to try and compensate.

 

[Cocko]

Cocko said you wouldn't be still

is [/i]good in bed.

Here I am, casually reading through a thread and BAM!

You two c%nts!..... ******* homs!

OP:

I recently upgraded to a tesuco reg, its been great! But like everything asked here, there will be 72 answers with 134 solutions...

Just my 2c.

 

[craigo]

Ok so ive de gassed and hooked it back up set the regulator to 60kpa and poured a beer pours pefectly but obviously its not carbonated yet so fingers crossed that the problem was that my beer was over carbonated.

 

[Mike L'Itorus]

"not carbonated" is a state of mind. Does it pour without excesseve foaming? If yes, you continue to have a problem If no, carry on. Does it pour with a head? If no, then stop tilting your glass like a local-pub-barwench, harden up, and pour straight, like a man. If yes, then continue to next question/statement....you pour without excessive foaming; you get a good head on the beer; BUT; you don't have lots and lots of bubbles rising through the glass.....welcome to correctly carbonated beer!! very different than the over bubbly, alka selzer - like rubbish poured (but mostly spilled) at your local pub.

Irrespective of whether I am right that it's a line length issue (even though I am), or others are right that it's overcarbonation (although, how can you overcarbonate with the 'let it sit for a week on serving pressure' aproach?????....now there's the real fly in the ointment, because you can't. ), the main point you should take from this painful lesson (and yes, it is a painful lesson. I remember oh so vividly when I went through it), is the final sentance in the balancing a draught system thread......

"DON'T SCREW WITH THE REGULATOR!"

So....if you know what volume of CO2 you want, and you have a stable temperature, and if you charge the keg by sitting for long enough (ie 1 week for 2.5vol or less, perhaps slightly longer for higher saturation levels) at the temparuture and pressure required for that saturation level of CO2.....

Your keg will be perfectly carbonated as per your requirements. You could leave it like this for a year, and the level of saturation of carbon dioxide within the system will be relative to the combination of temperature and pressure, and is unable to exceed the level of saturation which is relative to the combination of temperature and pressure.

Any pouring issues after this will be due to imbalance of the system. Either, line too short, causing excessive pressure in the pour (ie, commonly reffered too as overcarbonated: as I have mentioned previously, overcarbonated relative to the system in place, rather than to the required saturation level of CO2), or, the line is too long, causing underpressure pouring, and degassing within the line itself (ie, commonly referred to as undercarbing, again, undercarbonated relative to the system in place).

 

[craigo]

[/i][/u]. ), the main point you should take from this painful lesson (and yes, it is a painful lesson. I remember oh so vividly when I went through it), is the final sentance in the balancing a draught system thread......



So....if you know what volume of CO2 you want, and you have a stable temperature, and if you charge the keg by sitting for long enough (ie 1 week for 2.5vol or less, perhaps slightly longer for higher saturation levels) at the temparuture and pressure required for that saturation level of CO2.....

Your keg will be perfectly carbonated as per your requirements. You could leave it like this for a year, and the level of saturation of carbon dioxide within the system will be relative to the combination of temperature and pressure, and is unable to exceed the level of saturation which is relative to the combination of temperature and pressure.

Any pouring issues after this will be due to imbalance of the system. Either, line too short, causing excessive pressure in the pour (ie, commonly reffered too as overcarbonated: as I have mentioned previously, overcarbonated relative to the system in place, rather than to the required saturation level of CO2), or, the line is too long, causing underpressure pouring, and degassing within the line itself (ie, commonly referred to as undercarbing, again, undercarbonated relative to the system in place).

I don't understand your first sentence if I don't get exseive foaming I've still got a problem?

 

[Mike L'Itorus]

"not carbonated" is a state of mind. Does it pour without with excesseve foaming? If yes, you continue to have a problem If no, carry on.

My bad, typo. Corrected.

 

[pk.sax]

I like tilting. What's your problem!

Happy Friday cockgrease

 

[Dunkelbrau]

Basically the answer here is to INCREASE the line length. Pressure is too low in the lines, which means you need to increase the serving pressure to create more resistance (or REDUCE the diameter of the line) over the entire length ofthe line.

For example, 6mm line, you need around 4 meters to serve at around 75-80kpa, reduce that to 5mm and the result is less line.

As said above the LINE pressure is low, which indicates more is needed, to get a higher pressure you increase resistance, either smaller line or more of what you have.