Flanders Red

[raven19]

@tip - I would go a starter then pitch the lot after 24hours assuming there is some activity in the starter.

The saccro yeast component is pretty vigourous in my (limited but growing) experience so you shouldn't have an issue with no starter if the yeast has been stored in cool conditions.

 

[seamad]

Wyeast don't recommend a starter.
You may find it gets the bugs out of wack, found out myself the hard way when I grew up a starter from some orval dregs, the acetobacter dominated from the beer, I had the starter on the stir plate for about a week with increasing steps.
I want to make a berlinner weisse as well as a flanders and the craftbrewer bw yeast is getting a bit old too. May just need some extra ale yeast as I would hazard a guess that the bugs are a lot more hardy than the yeast.

 

[Tony]

Mashing my Flanders Red tomorrow.

Going to do a trubid mash as practice for the Lambics i plan soon after. This should give some residual starch for the bugs to eat to give me some good funk.

Also thinking of using carbon filtered water. Should still have all the mineral salts but near all of the chemical additives removed. I'm thinking this will help the longevity of the bugs

any thought on this?

 

[seamad]

I'm no expert...I plan on doing either a cereal mash or just gelatinize the raw wheat (20%) for my flanders red and then do a step mash, if making a lambic then would do a turbid mash to supply more starches for the bugs to eat.
As far as nutrients to keep the bugs going, that would also depend on how you are going to ferment, In a lambic I would put evrything in and just leave it, that way the dead yeasties can be eaten later on, so there will be plenty for them to survive on. With the red I think i will ferment 1st with yeast in primary and then transfer to the octave and add the bugs then leave it alone. It won't be as sour or funky but a flanders red isn't as wild as a lambic.
Sounds like you're making a hybrid type of flanders red, which with your skills will no doubt be most excellent.

 

[Tony]

I'm bringing it to the boil now.

What i did was a half turbid mash, colecting half the amounts recomended for a full turbid mash. The wort ran to the kettle crystal clear and tastes devine!

mashed in at 1L/kg @45 deg for 10 min
infused up to 58 deg for 5 min.
Collected half a liter of turbid mash and heated to 90 degc.
infused up to 66 deg for 30 min
Collected 2 liters of turbid mash, added to origional half liter and heated to 90 degc.
infused to 72 deg for 20 min
brought turbid wort to boil and added back into mash with 88 deg sprage water.
sparged at 88 deg.

Going to add the Roeselare pack direct to the wort in the carboy and ferment it cool at about 18 deg for the first couple weeks, to let the yeast get going and keep the bugs quiet.
Probably wont be exactly to style, but i do want it a bit sour and funky.

time will tell

cheers

 

[Tony]

Another thing i am working through im my head is this issue:

I placed some french Oak Chips in water to remove some of the stronger tanins before i use them in the brew.

The first jar full of water went a deep amber color, after a week, so i changed the water. I kept the first lot of water in a jar.

I have noticed that in the first lot of water, a white fuzzy fur has grown over all the timber fines in the bottom, and on the top of the current water that the timber sitting in, it has gone a bit mouldy.

I am thinking of either boiling the chips, or soaking them in some 90% alc i have laying around.

what to do...... what to do......

 

[tiprya]

I brewed my Flanders red yesterday, and no chilled into a sanitised corny that doesn't hold pressure. I'm going to ferment in that with a blow-off fitted to the gas post.

My 7 month old pack of Roeselare was smacked on Friday night, and is now half-swollen.

Still planning on just pitching the pack without a starter - I figure this will probably favour the bugs if anything, and I'm after something reasonably funky/sour.

I imagine it will take a while to start fermentation, but it should be fine given I'm going to leave it for a year before bottling? Or should I pitch some clean yeast in with it?

 

[tazman1967]

Some pics of my Flanders Red

 

[barls]

its a blend of 2 bretts, pedio, the floris yeast ie a sherry strain and one other that slips my mind atm.
it will be fine. i pitched 100 brett lambicus the other day started fine it was just over 12 months old

 

[Adam Howard]

Another thing i am working through im my head is this issue:

I placed some french Oak Chips in water to remove some of the stronger tanins before i use them in the brew.

The first jar full of water went a deep amber color, after a week, so i changed the water. I kept the first lot of water in a jar.

I have noticed that in the first lot of water, a white fuzzy fur has grown over all the timber fines in the bottom, and on the top of the current water that the timber sitting in, it has gone a bit mouldy.

I am thinking of either boiling the chips, or soaking them in some 90% alc i have laying around.

what to do...... what to do......

You can microwave them Tony. In water in a tupperware container with the lid on. Either that or steam them.

This is my first Flanders.

Started it a year ago. Jamil's recipe, glass carboy and 100% Roeselare. Going to bottle it in the next couple of weeks. I've brewed up another 32L of wort and I'll be dumping the bug cake from this first batch into a 34L demijohn for my next batch. Thinking I'll get a quicker turn around and have something a bit more like the Grand Cru with the second batch.

 

[Tony]

Awsome!

I still need to get some silicon bungs....... i found some on line but they are in WA and postage was prohibitive

 

[seamad]

Tony, read somewhere that even new oak chips boiled a couple of times maybe too oakey left in the beer that long, and that alcohol is better at removing some of the tannins. Soaking some chips in beer ( preferably dregs from a flanders red or lambic) will give less tannins and innoculate the chips, then reuse the chips in subsequent brews. Would give the fungus chips a good boil.
cheers
sean

 

[Adam Howard]

Awsome!

I still need to get some silicon bungs....... i found some on line but they are in WA and postage was prohibitive

This batch didn't use a silicon bung but ill be changing to silicon with all my sours from now. iBrew have them Tony, post should be cheaper from the east coast. www.ibrew.com.au

 

[Tony]

Will check them out.

Thanks mate

 

[Tony]

Carboy filled - Check
Swollen Roselare pack pitched - check
Sitting in fridge at 18 deg - check
Oak chips nuked and added to ferment - check
Silicon bungs on order - check
365 days to wait - check

 

[Tony]

Tony, read somewhere that even new oak chips boiled a couple of times maybe too oakey left in the beer that long, and that alcohol is better at removing some of the tannins. Soaking some chips in beer ( preferably dregs from a flanders red or lambic) will give less tannins and innoculate the chips, then reuse the chips in subsequent brews. Would give the fungus chips a good boil.
cheers
sean

missed this post........ not sure how :huh:

Anyway......... i gave them a good boil and the water they were in went like oak syrip. It smelt like wood candy....... that french oak is god stuff!

I have already added them into the brew so its too late now. A handfull of chips wouldnt be much compared to a full barrel's serface area.

After playing with the chips my fingers smelt like brandy syrip, and if thats the character thats going into the beer...... let it be

I like it!

This is going to be one wicked flanders

I think i will call it "The Red Ned"

I have found my label image as well

 

[Tony]

The Red Ned is chugging away nicely at 18 deg with a nice 1 inch head. I love how you can see the brew swirl in the glass!

My silicon bubgs turned up and i realised i have no airlocks......... i threw them all out years ago

Will get an airlock through the week......... the foil will do while its chugging away producing lots of gas.

363 days to go

 

[barls]

cubes or dominos are better for long term ageing. mate.

 

[seamad]

Love the red ned picture, awesome.Reckon the chips will be fine, tannins soften with age and if it's too much can always spilt into two with some fresh wort and add some fruit. Hanging out to get my barrel.

 

[Tony]

Yeah i figure if its way too oak laden...... i will be forced to brew another one with minimal or no oak, and blend the old one with the young beer.

How cool is a beer that you can fix a couple years down the track with another batch if you get it wrong