Flanders Red

[warrenlw63]

Many thanks goat. That helps a lot.

After 9 months I bought a turkey baster and pulled a sample from both carboys. Flavour is close to identical in both with one being a little more sour/complex. This could be due to that carboy having more headspace.

Aroma is balsamic vinegar (though not OTT) a little bit smokey, there's also a tiny bit of barnyard. Flavour is dry/winey & sour. Just a hint of smokey/musk in the finish from what I'd assume to be the Northdown hops I used. Remember this started life as a failed Irish Red.

Colour is lovely but probably visually darker than the photos. Thought I'd post them up anyway.

Might bottle it in the next month or two. Will be a nice, complex quaffer.

Warren -

 

[Chad]

I've got a while to go yet, but this is how mine's going. You can see the stats on the sticker when I racked it into this carboy.
I'm quite disappointed that I didn't get a nice big pellicle. What you see is as good as it has gotten.


I will be brewing another later in the year, but aging it in a plastic carboy for a much short amount of time as it should sour quicker, and then blend the two together in a 50L oak barrel.
I really should go get me a turkey baster to sample how this one is going.

 

[warrenlw63]

Hey Chad I contemplated the Raj Apted toasted oak dowel also. However I got a bit concerned about bugs dribbling out into the brewery via the dowel.

Don't sweat on the pellicle mine never really happened either. It got more white dotty/waxy stuff than anything. That vanished then reappeared when the 40+ degree heatwaves hit down here.

To be honest you'll probably find the flavours more subdued than you're hoping for (as I did) that being said it certainly seems to make for a dry and drinkable beer. I was sort of hoping for more of that full on sour Balsamic Vinegar flavour you get in Rodenbach Grand Cru.

Warren -

 

[Chad]

I actually didn't have the dowel in there at first. I had an airlock only but nothing was happening. So I repitched some new yeast, and put the dowel in, and that's when something finally happened.
The carboy is nowhere near the brewery.

 

[warrenlw63]

Just an update because this thread warrants it. I tested mine on the weekend and the balsamic sourness is really starting to get a toehold. There's some very nice Rodenbach-like flavours starting to happen with a few complex toasty notes as well.

I've racked it into some cubes with an oak stave broken up and distributed between the two. The stave was soaked for a month in some wine and then steamed before adding. I'll give it a test for "oakiness" in a few weeks and then bottle with some fresh yeast.

I'm just hoping it maintains it's current flavour profile and doesn't sour too much more. I'd have it around just right now. Not sure how much the lactic character will progress?? :unsure:

Here's a couple of pics. A very gunky looking carboy and a glass of the goods with some pocket beer engine assistance. :lol:

Warren -

 

[Stuster]

That looks just great, Warren. And the beer too.

How old is that batch now?

The small part of my first batch that I racked on to raspberries for 10 months was bottled a few weeks back and tastes great. Better than the main batch which has aged the same time in bottles. It's hard to pick the raspberries out from the overall fruit flavours but somehow it's made the batch that much more delicious. Will take a picture when I drink the next one (only have ten more stubbies so I'm trying to be careful with them).

Second batch has a thin pellicle and smells the part. Will try to leave off bottling this one as long as possible.

 

[warrenlw63]

That looks just great, Warren. And the beer too.

How old is that batch now?

The small part of my first batch that I racked on to raspberries for 10 months was bottled a few weeks back and tastes great. Better than the main batch which has aged the same time in bottles. It's hard to pick the raspberries out from the overall fruit flavours but somehow it's made the batch that much more delicious. Will take a picture when I drink the next one (only have ten more stubbies so I'm trying to be careful with them).

Second batch has a thin pellicle and smells the part. Will try to leave off bottling this one as long as possible.

Thanks Stu Raspberries sound quite tempting if not a little butch! :lol: I'll keep my eyes open for a pic. .

Mine is about 10 months old now. The part I can't figure is how long to leave it for? Was still basically sitting on the primary yeast and was worried about off-flavours as a consequence. There are in fact none. From a personal standpoint I reckon the bugs ate away at the primary yeast and left those lovely toasty flavours (a bit like expensive champagne).

I'll probably give it a couple of months on the oak to make it an even year and bottle. I'll try (read; with all my will-power) to leave the bottles for around 6 months before sampling. That will give the whole batch the standard 18 months from pitching to drinking. To be honest I could have kegged it, gassed it and quite happily had at it right away.

I actually contemplated adding fruit to half the batch but instead cubed it. It fell short for volume (big headspace) so I added the remaining portion of a dubbel I was not happy with and then thought "solera" and poured in 10 bottles of an 9 year old barley wine that was getting long in the tooth. I'm just going to leave this cube to the beer gods and see what happens.

Warren -

 

[kook]

Mine is about 10 months old now. The part I can't figure is how long to leave it for? Was still basically sitting on the primary yeast and was worried about off-flavours as a consequence. There are in fact none. From a personal standpoint I reckon the bugs ate away at the primary yeast and left those lovely toasty flavours (a bit like expensive champagne).

From my understanding, the FRA brewers tend to ferment in stainless for primary, then rack to the wood for secondary.

I've been fermenting in primary with US05, then racking to secondary and adding the roselare pack.

The batch I bottled yesterday was a blend of 25 month old (the batch mentioned in the OP) and 19 month old (2.2:1). Both still had quite a thick pellicle on them. Will post pics once it's in the glass.

One of my plambic batches has about an inch of pellicle at the moment! It's all bubbly and manky

 

[warrenlw63]

From my understanding, the FRA brewers tend to ferment in stainless for primary, then rack to the wood for secondary.

I've been fermenting in primary with US05, then racking to secondary and adding the roselare pack.

The batch I bottled yesterday was a blend of 25 month old (the batch mentioned in the OP) and 19 month old (2.2:1). Both still had quite a thick pellicle on them. Will post pics once it's in the glass.

One of my plambic batches has about an inch of pellicle at the moment! It's all bubbly and manky

:lol: I guess then kook that mine is living proof that you can (sometimes) get away with incorrect technique. There was quite a bit of grey yeasty trub on the bottom of the carboys. No sign of autolysis whatsoever. Either that or the bugs eat and excrete it into something nicer.

I was never bothered because the beer was originally a failed Irish Red Ale that stopped dead at 1.040 due to some weird outcome with the original Thames Valley yeast. So I treated the whole thing with the mentalilty that I had nothing to lose.

Hey that blend sounds awesome. Can you PM me when you post the pic! One thing I've noticed is that given time the colours change in weird and wonderful ways. Mine's almost a fine ruby-red.

Now I have my carboys back my next project is a P-Lambic to get rid of my 9 year old NZ Goldings hop flowers.

Warren -

 

[Quintrex]

Hmm with all this talk of sour beers, i wonder if there is any chance of an australia wide sour beer case swap?
It'd be awesome to taste some of these fine creations.

Thoughts?

Q

 

[warrenlw63]

I'm down. :beer:

Even a small state only swap would be highly interesting.

Warren -

 

[neonmeate]

LET'S DO THIS SWAP fellers

i've got a kriek - (4kg of sour cherries with oud bruin base)
and the original oud bruin ((old) liefmans goudenband recipe, made with 9097)
and a dryhopped 9%abv saison lambicised with cantillon and cuvee rene dregs

but they might not be all ready for a while... could we line something up for september or so?

 

[Stuster]

I'm in.

 

[kook]

I'm in, though the size of the swap may have to be limited, I'm presuming everyone doesn't have cases of the stuff lying around?

I've got the following funky stuff in bottles:

Amber Ale (bottled with Orval yeast)
Brett L. Enkel/Single
Brett L. Blonde
Berliner Weisse
Dark Funk
Flanders Red
Druivenbier (Dark Funk with Merlot must)

I also have some Flanders Kriek - but it's unfortunately not really suitable for swapping. I didn't filter in any way when bottling, so quite a lot of cherry particulate has ended up in the bottles. It doesn't make for the most visually appealing beer.

 

[Quintrex]

Awesome!!!!!!!!!!

I can submit a sour cherry flanders red
May also have a B. Claussenii saison ready by then as well(will probably need further aging).
Voota might have a lambic ready not sure with or without fruit at this stage but i'm sure he'd be in.

How do you wanna do the swap
I'm guessing auspost winepacks are most economical. Potentially all entries could be sent to one delegate in each city.

Cheers
Q

I guess we should start a new thread

 

[warrenlw63]

Just pulling this one out of mothballs again.

I'm planning to bottle mine this long weekend because I reckon it's tasting great.

Question if I may? Do the folks with acid ale bottling experience use any old ale yeast for re-yeasting or do I need something acid-tolerant like a red wine yeast?

I have a sachet of US-05 and thought that would be good enough for the job?

TIA

Warren -

 

[bconnery]

Just pulling this one out of mothballs again.

I'm planning to bottle mine this long weekend because I reckon it's tasting great.

Question if I may? Do the folks with acid ale bottling experience use any old ale yeast for re-yeasting or do I need something acid-tolerant like a red wine yeast?

I have a sachet of US-05 and thought that would be good enough for the job?

TIA

Warren -

This question, plus another technique. Is is just a case of bulk priming technique, with both sugar and some yeast mixed up first?
I know the answer is on here somewhere but much easier to piggyback on this question

 

[warrenlw63]

This question, plus another technique. Is is just a case of bulk priming technique, with both sugar and some yeast mixed up first?
I know the answer is on here somewhere but much easier to piggyback on this question

Ben I'd planned to do my priming sugar in the regular manner (boiled up in 500ml of water). I was going to rehydrate the yeast in routine fashion and then just add both to the bottling bucket and rack the beer on top.

I remember reading somewhere myself (babblebelt I think) that US-05 is fine but a red wine yeast will hedge your bets due to being able to resist higher acid levels.

My gut feeling tells me that a regular ale yeast and an extended bottle-conditioning period might do the job.

Warren -

 

[Quintrex]

Ben I'd planned to do my priming sugar in the regular manner (boiled up in 500ml of water). I was going to rehydrate the yeast in routine fashion and then just add both to the bottling bucket and rack the beer on top.

I remember reading somewhere myself (babblebelt I think) that US-05 is fine but a red wine yeast will hedge your bets due to being able to resist higher acid levels.

My gut feeling tells me that a regular ale yeast and an extended bottle-conditioning period might do the job.

Warren -

I've read the babblebelt discussion, and I'd probably just use the us-05 for a standard strength beer. Probably save the big guns for a higher alc/acid batch.

I'll probably bottle my second batch this weekend, adding a 2nd lot of cherries has really lifted the acidity/flavour.
Can't wait.
Q

 

[warrenlw63]

I've read the babblebelt discussion, and I'd probably just use the us-05 for a standard strength beer. Probably save the big guns for a higher alc/acid batch.

I'll probably bottle my second batch this weekend, adding a 2nd lot of cherries has really lifted the acidity/flavour.
Can't wait.
Q

Thanks Q!

Where are you sourcing your cherries?

Warren -