First Saison - Advice needed

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Trevandjo

Trevandjo

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16/11/13
Messages
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Location
Sandon, Vic
I'm about to make my first Saison and I'm after some advice on the following recipe. Of main concern is the grain bill, hop schedule and ferm temperatures - so I guess the lot.

JW Export pils 70.8%
JW Wheat 13.7%
Simpson RB .5%
34g Saaz (60min)
21g Hallertauer Mittlefrueh (60min)
Sugar 660g
Belgian Saison 1 WLP 565 then
BRY-97 to finish it off

90 min boil
Est OG 1.058
Est FG 1.010

Ferment at 19 deg.

Thanks,

Trev
 
I'd drop the RB, up the wheat to 30-40% (just my preference) and ferment around 22'C, raising the temp to high 20's over 10 or so days, until it finishes. Those saison yeasts don't mind to be pushed higher temperature-wise. I'll happily ferment between 25-30 when I make saisons.

All personal preference though. The original beer would still make a very nice saison.
 
I did a similar recipe late last year and i would definitley drop the sugar. Mine had only 450g for a 18l batch and the abv is way too high for my taste.

Ferment above 25 for added funk and expect a lower FG
 
Pitch enough yeast, keep it warm and have a little patience and you won't need that second strain of yeast.
 
toper01 said:
Concern yourself with the mash schedule too.
Click to expand...
The mash schedule will be.

5min @ 55deg
50min @ 63 deg
10min at 68 deg
10min @ 72 deg
10min @ 78 deg

How's that sound?
 
Why the sugar can I ask? Having a second crack at a saison shortly. My first was a toucan that was very well received. Will be a partial this time around.
 
Trevandjo said:
The mash schedule will be.

5min @ 55deg
50min @ 63 deg
10min at 68 deg
10min @ 72 deg
10min @ 78 deg

How's that sound?
Click to expand...
That looks fine, though with that mash schedule you probably won't need the sugar. It should be quite dry anyway but a long low 60's mash combined with a saison years will already dry it out, and finish quite low in fg. You can certainly still add the sugar just be aware it will end up quite strong.
 
And I agree, ditch the dry yeast. Just keep it warm and be patient, it'll be worth it.
 
mje1980 said:
That looks fine, though with that mash schedule you probably won't need the sugar. It should be quite dry anyway but a long low 60's mash combined with a saison years will already dry it out, and finish quite low in fg. You can certainly still add the sugar just be aware it will end up quite strong.
Click to expand...
The sugar was to increase the ABV% a bit but I'll take your advice and leave it out.
 
I do 90 mins at 62 for saison and no high 60's rest, because I want them really dry. They still end up with enough body to balance the dryness, even at 1.005-6. Saison yeast strains are weird
 
Trevandjo said:
So what would you suggest?
Click to expand...
Either just mash low like mje does for the full 60 or shorten the first rest to 15 and extend the high 60s to 30-40 mins, followed by 72.
 
manticle said:
Either just mash low like mje does for the full 60 or shorten the first rest to 15 and extend the high 60s to 30-40 mins, followed by 72.
Click to expand...
Is your 15 mins @62 using JW as a base or a Euro / Wey pils? Just wondering if the JW would convert as quick.


My stock saison uses Wey BoPils and the mash is as follows.

10-15 mins @ 55
60 mins @ 63
30 mins @ 68
10 mins @ 72
Mashout

Fairly similar to the OP and I get a well attenuated (1004-7ish) with a good amount of body using Dupont or 3711.


Ps Manticle that was me who yelled out crossing the Upfield train line the other day. Got the impression you didn't pick me!
 
Nah I recognised you. Was on my way to a futsal match which is why I didn't stop but facial recognition was triggered.

Haven't used joe white anything for ages.
 
Sugar is not evil... it can work wonders once your yeast gets to 1.020 or so but yes you don't want to go too high or have to high a gravity with your grain. I had a gravity of 1.041, let it get down to 20 or so, then added sugar to equivalent 1.053. Mash temp was 62.5°C and sugar content was 15% (invert syrup). Finished at 1.002, 7.3% (after carbonating fairly high) and is delicious.
 
Oh yeah... And if you want a bit of extra colour, do you have some carafa special? It is a lot more subtle that roast barley (as delicious as RB is) and should serve your purposes.
 
Nothing wrong with sugar in a saison, I happened to get a gold medal at the aabc last year with mine and it had about 400g of sugar. I would just ditch the rb, and do a single step 90 main mash at 64 and ferment it warm. You really should not need the bry 97
 
Also agree the cafafa could work well, I also like a bit of caramunich
 

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