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Fermenting Under Pressure

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Anyone pressure fermented a kolsch and if so how did it turn out?
 
Stubbie said:
Anyone pressure fermented a kolsch and if so how did it turn out?
Click to expand...
Plenty. Got 40L cold conditioning now, in fact. They perform as well as any other ale, although Wyeast 2565 is a slow flocculator. Be prepared to cold condition for a while before kegging unless you want that distinctive Kolsch yeast aroma all up in yo' nostrils (not necessarily a bad thing)
 
I've got 2 Kolsch's that were kegged in October waiting for xmas
They are starting to get a little lighter, 3 weeks to go :overhead:
 
Thanks for the replies. I'm on a tight schedule to produce some HB for the Jan holidays and pressure fermenting may just prove to be my saviour.
 
pcqypcqy said:
For example, using this chart: http://kegking.com.au/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/KEGKING-Set-Forget-CO2-Carbonation-Chart.png

Say you were chasing 2.2 volumes of CO2 as your desired carbonation level and you're keezer serving temperature is 5 degrees C. Reading off that chart you'd need 10 psi to achieve this using the set/forget method.

Following that same column down to your ferment or d-rest temperature then tells you what level you need to achieve prior to chilling to lock in those volumes. So in this case it's 23psi at 18 degrees or 27psi at 22 degrees.
Click to expand...

Am I missing something here that deals with duration under pressure / temp to attain the desired CO2? The plan is to ferment at around 20, crash chill (2 deg) then transfer to serving keg. To get my 2.2 volumes, this calls up for 7.2 psi. Working back from my current method of 300kpa @ 2 deg for 24 hours gets me about 10.8 psi (75 kpa) for 96 hours? Is that all there is to it?
Sorry for the convolution. I'm an idiot..
 
Dave70 said:
Am I missing something here that deals with duration under pressure / temp to attain the desired CO2? The plan is to ferment at around 20, crash chill (2 deg) then transfer to serving keg. To get my 2.2 volumes, this calls up for 7.2 psi. Working back from my current method of 300kpa @ 2 deg for 24 hours gets me about 10.8 psi (75 kpa) for 96 hours? Is that all there is to it?
Sorry for the convolution. I'm an idiot..
Click to expand...

Time is of course the missing factor from that chart. The charts just assume you reach equilibrium, which you have to judge yourself. As you probably know from kegging, if you do a set and forget on your keg, after a week it's nearly (but not quite) there, and after 2 it's pretty well right.

With your example, if you want to achieve 7.2 psi at 2 degrees after your crash, you need to follow that column down to your temperature before the crash and achieve that stable pressure in your fermenter first. If it's 20 degrees like you say, you need 25.1 psi.

I couldn't comment on your quick-force-carb method as there would be too many variables, but if that works for you then keep doing it. But the good thing with a pressure ferment is that the carbonation process is faster because the CO2 is being created all throughout the wort on a micro level already, i.e. you don't have to force it in like you would for an uncarbonated beer, and the interface area between gas and liquid is almost infinite, rather than just the liquid surface as it is in a force carb situation.

And because you're fermenting, you have time on your side to achieve the pressure you want because you're waiting for the yeast to work anyway.

I usually ferment around the 10psi mark and 18 degrees C, and then ramp the temperature up to low 20's for a d rest for a few days. I often D-rest for around the 3 days / 96 hours as you've suggested and the gauge goes around to the 20psi mark (which I estimate as being near the second screw on my keg-king gauge). I then then crash for at least 24 hours and it generally settles around the 10 to 12psi mark, which is pretty close to where I want it.
 
The reference to force carbing was only to regular fermented beer. What I was getting at was basically just using numbers I know work and applying that to this carbing up / pressure fermenting deal.
Indecently, I dont think 300 x 24 hours is a great way to go. Its gets you there, but as others seem to have noted here, the longer, gently does it natural method seems to produce a better result.
 
Dave70 said:
The reference to force carbing was only to regular fermented beer. What I was getting at was basically just using numbers I know work and applying that to this carbing up / pressure fermenting deal.
Indecently, I dont think 300 x 24 hours is a great way to go. Its gets you there, but as others seem to have noted here, the longer, gently does it natural method seems to produce a better result.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, and because I'm impatient, that's one of the biggest things I like pressure ferment because it happens as you ferment and you can drink straight away if you want.
 
Dave70 said:
The reference to force carbing was only to regular fermented beer. What I was getting at was basically just using numbers I know work and applying that to this carbing up / pressure fermenting deal.
Indecently, I dont think 300 x 24 hours is a great way to go. Its gets you there, but as others seem to have noted here, the longer, gently does it natural method seems to produce a better result.
Click to expand...
A lot of information on Wiley online library (brewing institute) Pressure Fermenting, discussing lager fermentation, I am happy with what I have read on this thread and excited to give my ghetto low pressure fermentation a go first, applies only to ale yeasts. This method can save me money, I always go for secondary ferment and transferring the beer to secondary I blanket the beer being transferred, with this method I can capture the co2 and transfer without using my gas bottle, anything left over I can capture in a camping deflatable water container and use with my hand pump. The lagers, according to info gleaned from above link 26 psi pressure for lagers at around 16 degrees C for finishing quicker, ale yeast doesn't like the pressure.
I tested a cube today on my compressor took it up to 30 psi so a cube is alright for the pressure range, it was a heavy duty dangerous goods cube, $9.00 for a 25 litre so reasonable saving there.
This is how I have set mine up for the ales, on hindsight I will add another JG tap and JG non return that way if needed when transferring beer using the 2 bottom taps I can bring the co2 back into the original fermentation vessel.
005.JPG
 
I wouldn't trust those taps. Did you try the 30 psi with liquid or just air. I would assume 20L(weight) of carbing beer and 26 psi of pressure would be different to just air pressure?
 
id be trying it with water for correct pressure rating.

I think that a cube would hold close to 10psi before the tap/thread gave way which means if it does hold that you could run at 5+ psi for ales which is what Im doing with the fermentasaurus
 
The pressure is the same whether it be fluid or air, 30 psi air pressure is the same as 30 psi water pressure, the idea is to let the wort naturally ferment in the primary (very low pressure) and the secondary would not come close to the 30 psi pressure as I want to try serving straight from the secondary so the pressure is minimal. The vacuum created will be taken up by the co2 captured from the ferment so the beer never comes into contact with any oxygen whatsoever after the pitching of the yeast.
This is what I do with the hand pump, the vacuum is taken up with the co2 in the collapsible water pitcher.
002.JPG
 
bradsbrew said:
I wouldn't trust those taps. Did you try the 30 psi with liquid or just air. I would assume 20L(weight) of carbing beer and 26 psi of pressure would be different to just air pressure?
Click to expand...

That was my first concern also seeing how many of the ******* things have leaked around the Plasticine like threads of the cube on me. But on second thoughts, I dont think there surface area of the tap is large enough to reasonably cause a problem. Thats my guess anyway. I dunno. There's so much I dont know about the principles of pressure vessel design, and letters that somehow equal equal numbers when divided by the square of x/y - f and multiplied by..bla..blaaa..bla..blaa..and so on..
 
wide eyed and legless said:
A lot of information on Wiley online library (brewing institute) Pressure Fermenting, discussing lager fermentation, I am happy with what I have read on this thread and excited to give my ghetto low pressure fermentation a go first, applies only to ale yeasts. This method can save me money, I always go for secondary ferment and transferring the beer to secondary I blanket the beer being transferred, with this method I can capture the co2 and transfer without using my gas bottle, anything left over I can capture in a camping deflatable water container and use with my hand pump. The lagers, according to info gleaned from above link 26 psi pressure for lagers at around 16 degrees C for finishing quicker, ale yeast doesn't like the pressure.
I tested a cube today on my compressor took it up to 30 psi so a cube is alright for the pressure range, it was a heavy duty dangerous goods cube, $9.00 for a 25 litre so reasonable saving there.
This is how I have set mine up for the ales, on hindsight I will add another JG tap and JG non return that way if needed when transferring beer using the 2 bottom taps I can bring the co2 back into the original fermentation vessel.
View attachment 110264
Click to expand...

That's some top quality science right there.

I've been wondering when someone will start selling plastic corny's, this might be the start of some ghetto versions.
 
the have an s-spear.... so probably not very economical by the time you get ball lock adaptors etc.
 
wide eyed and legless said:
I spend a lot of time on Alibaba these caught my attention, this price and image is not the manufacturer, so pricey compared to the manufacturers price but the manufacturer has a couple of thousand minimum order.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...ml?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.8.718a1ce9gvLo1d
Click to expand...

These would be great with ball locks instead of d and s stems. Could put weldless ball locks in ... but by the time you do that, again... you might as well by a used corny for $75
 
Last edited:
bradsbrew said:
I wouldn't trust those taps. Did you try the 30 psi with liquid or just air. I would assume 20L(weight) of carbing beer and 26 psi of pressure would be different to just air pressure?
Click to expand...

Cube taps have never given me any trouble in ten years of pressure fermenting in cubes. I was initially worried that the taps would be the weakest point and changed them regularly.

I don’t think I have changed a tap for about two years now. I pull them apart to clean after each use and the little lug that holds them together is so worn on some that they can be pulled apart by hand really easily but still don’t pop out under fermenting pressure.

I ferment up to about 20 PSI, plenty pictures and info on this in the Carbing in a cube thread
 
I don't see how. It's just a regulator. The high pressure side is unregulated, the low pressure side sits at the desired pressure. Could be used as a secondary regulator if you want to run CO2 into kegs at different pressures.
 
peteru said:
I don't see how. It's just a regulator. The high pressure side is unregulated, the low pressure side sits at the desired pressure. Could be used as a secondary regulator if you want to run CO2 into kegs at different pressures.
Click to expand...
The one he has linked is the AR2000 which is a pressure relief valve. One of the guy in the original pressure fermenting thread was using exactl;y this unit.
 
Hey guys, I'm about to ferment a weizen with Wlp351. Has anyone used this yeast under pressure? Or should I swap the spunding valve for a blow off? I like a nice estery weizen...
 
rossbaker said:
Hey guys, I'm about to ferment a weizen with Wlp351. Has anyone used this yeast under pressure? Or should I swap the spunding valve for a blow off? I like a nice estery weizen...
Click to expand...

I haven't used that yeast in particular,but generally I find everything seems to benefit from 5 to 10 psi during the first few days.
 
Still waiting for spundings though I have a feeling they'll arrive mid week so I've got some yeast about to go on the plate WLP 072 French Ale, wish me luck! I also need to reinforce the shelf in the fridge, a nice little job for the morning.
 
And they're off!!
I felt slightly deflated this morning thinking the needle hadn't shifted until I popped on my focals and realized it was stuck hard against the pin, and only twelve hours since pitching.
I also learned that a WLP002 starter is supposed to look like cottage cheese and it wasn't a crook batch.
Great success! (though there is something slightly wrong with this picture..)

20171210_084011_zpsv1dbjc0s.jpg
 

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