Extreme Bitterness, Have I Created Poison?

[chappo1970]

The /sourness I put in the original post is because I wasn't sure how to describe the flavour or sensation I was experiencing. It may not even be a bitterness but it is the only way I can articulate it. Maybe an acidic taste would be a better desciption.


I have only used the pot once before today and that was sundays brew. read above post.
Anyone else have browning of their aluminium pots?


No I have never done a high AA brew before this is my 4th brew actually.

I hope you are all right and it will disapate with age.


EDIT:

Photo of the discoloration to the pot.
View attachment 36799

Looks like normal old beer stone Daft. I have noticed Aluminium will get it quicker than SS. I have had 2 Ali kettles now. I am guessing but I imagine this is due to the nature of the oxidizing layer on aluminium. Maybe it is more susceptable to attack from the acid nature of wort? Dunno really?

A hit wil PBW will clean it off quick smart.

Cheers

Chap Chap

 

[clarkey7]

The /sourness I put in the original post is because I wasn't sure how to describe the flavour or sensation I was experiencing. It may not even be a bitterness but it is the only way I can articulate it. Maybe an acidic taste would be a better desciption.


I have only used the pot once before today and that was sundays brew. read above post.
Anyone else have browning of their aluminium pots?

DT,

I'm not really sure what the taste you are describing is.....Do you have any other experienced homebrewers around who could taste and put forward their opinion?

As others have suggested it could be normal for this stage of the process with those ingredients, but it would be better to check with another experienced person from LHBS or HBing community. Or just wait until it's fermented and re-assess.

I can talk to the aluminium pot scenario as I started off with a similar pot myself. All looks normal in your photo.

If you were going to have a problem with an aluminium pot imparting a harsh metallic flavour it's with your first batch.
When I started off, I didn't know that your supposed to boil water in an Aluminium pot first to "season" oxidize it.
After doing that once your all good.

If your worried for future, fill your pot right up and boil water in it for 10 mins or so, have a look and tip out. Repeat until water ends up clear or at least the same as if you did this with one of the SS pots in your kitchen.

Looking back on it, the first batch of water heated in my AL pot was murky , but by the time I did another batch and realised that murky strike water wasn't normal and that my first batch was probably contaminated with AL...it was already finished and tasted.

Anyway, the yeast probably absorbed it all during fermentation as I, and noone at our club could detect any off-flavour in the APA that I brewed.

Let us know how you get on,

PB

 

[Bizier]

I can say that I boiled some plain water in my pot when I got it, and I can still see that exact water-level mark on it after many brews. Perhaps there is some electrolytic phenomenon that someone smarter and science learned might explain.

I suggest that for no-chill, you are looking at flavour additions only, and will need to move all additions forward, and this might explain over-bittering. I have decided to use it for non-hoppy beers like milds, and extremely hoppy beers like IIPA, where I can add a load of dry hop afterwards.

I say if it ferments out and is still unpalatable, you could consider either ageing it out for yonks, or you could add some more sugars to boost the gravity, and add more dry hops to make a kind of bit IPA, where the sweetness of alcohol and resins of hops might smooth out the overall harsh experience. Then again, that just might be my answer to everything.

I tasted the lager that you swapped for those bottles, and I can say that it was clean and drinkable, and my only issue was with the ingredients (not yours), so at least I can vouch that you are able to maintain cleanliness.

Maybe you are just going through the start of your lupulin threshold shift.

 

[zebba]

Did you forget to pour the sanitiser or cleaner from the cube before pouring wort on top? I'd be looking at other chemicals in the process personally - cleaners or sanitisers that weren't used appropriately.

 

[roller997]

At the end of the day, if the taste is so intense that it is hard to distinguish between sourness, bitterness or other flavours, I would suggest it is a chemical reaction of some sort that is unlikely to be fixed via fermentation.

Bitterness is an easy one to explain if you get a mouth full of hops but unfermented wort is not intolerably bitter from my limited experience.
Sourness I would have normally put down to an infection which would be highly progressed if it is difficult to pinpoint. I don't expect sourness in wort until after I make a style of beer that is supposed to be sour and has started its fermentation.

For the sake of an experiment and proving the theory of an infection wrong, I would agree with some of the posters to ferment it (albeit with inexpensive yeast). I do however suspect that if the flavours are so intense and if they exhibit sourness, I don't think it will improve much when you ferment more of the sugars out reducing the sweetness even further. Bitterness might subside but sourness.....

Regards

Roller

 

[manticle]

A lot of inexperienced palates fail to distinguish between bitter and sour.

Eat the skin of a lemon. Bitter.

Suck the flesh of a lemon. Sour

 

[jiesu]

Well I had written a good 4 or 5 paragraphs of witty, entertaining text on my late night journey to the brewery for a second tasting, however, In my excitment of watching Ribery smash a deflected set piece into the back of the net against Man U it got erased into the ethos of the interwebs.... or something..

In short I had another taste of the wort now that it has settled slightly and also cooled to about 27 degrees. This time i was especially carful as to only put the tiniest amount in my mouth. To my surprise I was able to taste a sweetness against the bitterness leading me to belive that the "bittrness" has subsided slightly. Despite me feeling slightly foolish in my earlier over-reaction I am also fairly certain it is not fatal I think in my haste earlier and also excitment I may have took a rather large taste test and been overwhelmed by what is essentially my first taste of fresh hopped wort. The taste is certainly felt on the back of the tounge which as I am led to believe is bitterness.

In essence don't trust a virgin's tounge. They never know quite how to use it.

I'll continue to monitor its progress carefully and Im sure it will eventually subside to something I might actually enjoy putting down the throat.

 

[manticle]

Taste it throughout fermentation. You'd be surprised how the flavours change (sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse) and how different again they will be after ferment and after conditioning and carbonation and maturation. A great way to educate your palate but even with experience it can be easy to think "omg I've stuffed it that's horrible'. Always, always wait and see (unless it tastes like a rimjob with a non-believer in showers)

 

[bum]

(unless it tastes like a rimjob with a non-believer in showers)

Sounds exactly like something a heathen might do. Hurry up already, Rapture!

 

[Sydneybrewer]

i think i might know what has happened here as something very similar has happened to me. about 7 months ago roughly i made a jsga clone recipe using all amarillo with additions @ 40, 20, 10 approx. 100grams used all up didnt have a hop sock so all hops were just thrown in to the pot with the boiling lme and it smelt bloody beautiful, anyway poored the wort and hops in to a cube and no chilled left overnight. before pitching yeast tasted a sample and **** me it was harsh to say the least, didnt think to much of it though just thought it would have to get better after fermentation it didnt, thought it would get better after a few weeks in bottle it didnt, i thought it would get better after a few months in the bottle it didnt, anyway 7 months later and it still tastes like shit although some of the bitterness has slipped. i racked my brain about this and have not used amarillo since i thought that must be the culprit until recently i had one of those eureka moments. WHEN I POURED THE WORT IN TO THE CUBE IT WAS STILL VERY HOT, IT STILL HAD 100G HIGH AA% HOPS IN IT, EFFECTIVELY I THINK THAT THESE HOPS WERE STILL ADDING BITTERNESS TO THE BREW OVERNIGHT WHILE THE WORT SLOWLY COOLED, ESSENTIALLY RESULTING IN A 100G HIGH AA% BITTERING ADDITION. now this is just my opinion maybe more seasoned brewers might have a better answer, but i think your situation is too similar to mine for it to be just a coincidence that you tasted what i tasted.

 

[jiesu]

Possibly but wouldn't you expect that everyone who does no chill would get a similar result? provided they are not draining via filtration? I mean I did whirlpool mine before siphoning and their certainly was alot of hops left behind.

 

[glaab]

yeah, but he tasted it going into the cube

 

[glaab]

too much yakkin and not enough drinkin' , boy

 

[zoidbergmerc]

Possibly but wouldn't you expect that everyone who does no chill would get a similar result? provided they are not draining via filtration? I mean I did whirlpool mine before siphoning and their certainly was alot of hops left behind.

You should sent it all to Tasmania Att to me, I'll make sure it's safe for you.

 

[katzke]

In short I had another taste of the wort now that it has settled slightly and also cooled to about 27 degrees. This time i was especially carful as to only put the tiniest amount in my mouth. To my surprise I was able to taste a sweetness against the bitterness leading me to belive that the "bittrness" has subsided slightly. Despite me feeling slightly foolish in my earlier over-reaction I am also fairly certain it is not fatal I think in my haste earlier and also excitment I may have took a rather large taste test and been overwhelmed by what is essentially my first taste of fresh hopped wort. The taste is certainly felt on the back of the tounge which as I am led to believe is bitterness.

In essence don't trust a virgin's tounge. They never know quite how to use it.

I'll continue to monitor its progress carefully and Im sure it will eventually subside to something I might actually enjoy putting down the throat.

Fresh wort tastes different. Just like beer, hot wort tastes different then cold wort. In the beginning you do not learn much from the taste of the fresh wort. After brewing for a while you get an idea of how the beer will turn out.

Repeating something I read or was told a long time ago. There is nothing you can do to beer that will kill you. It may taste awful or make you sick but it will not kill you. I have no idea if that is true. It is the rule I follow. Smell is a good way to test suspect beer. If it does not smell like beer then why drink it. The exception is sensory training when you drink known flaws to learn them.

The color of your aluminum kettle looks just fine. Do not scrub it off, as it is a protective oxide layer. If you clean it shinny it will just turn dark again. The layer keeps excess aluminum out of what you are cooking.

 

[scoundrel]

your pot looks fine mate, but you' d best send me a bottle just to be sure

 

[hirns]

Slightly off topic but my Big W cube when I first washed it out with 4l of boiling water gave off a hideous plastic (poisonous) smell. I was very concerned about putting beer into it. It took quite a bit of rinsing with boiling water before the smell was gone. I used it initially as a secondary transfer vessel. Would hate to think what it would have done to a beer had it been simply sprayed with santizer and then had boiling wort poured into it! Yeah I know it's been pointed out that the beer was tasted before but it may save others a brew .

 

[manticle]

It's generally recommended that you thoroughly wash and rinse a new cube with sodium percarb and/or boiling water until the water itself tastes clean. Don't assume it's ready to go just because it's new.

 

[Sydneybrewer]

well i dont know then just a coincidence i guess, but since i have started using a hop sock i have not had this problem so i am still blaming 100g hops left in the hot wort.

 

[manticle]

100g of amarillo in a no-chill cube would give a very high IBU particularly if you were not used to high IBU brews. I also find amarillo needs a bit of time to settle if used in large amounts.