Enrich My Brew

[Zipster]

Hi there,

I was tasting yesterday a brew (Cooper's Aussie pale) hat has been in bottles for only a short time... 5 days. And noticed that the taste was really poor. Because of the fact that there is very little fizz, the taste buds are not numbed by the bubbles and therefore you can taste the actual flavour of it.

My theory is that if the brew does not have a rich taste when you drink it flat, then I'm not interested to drink it when fizzy. My ancestors were drinking almost non fizzy ale at room temperature and they were enjoying it. The fact that nowdays we have materials that allows us to contain more pressure and keep it cold should be only a plus, not an obligation.

Do you know where I'm coming from?

So how can I enrich the flavour? Grains? More hopps?

I'm at the moment only using 3kg of malt ext per 20L of water, and I reckon it tastes watery, to a degree.

Any advise welcome.

.z

 

[Fodder]

This may sound a little basic, but my advice: leave it in the bottle longer!

5 days is really to soon...what your tasting is the yeast still eating your priming sugar to make co2. They havent finished their work yet and will be in no state to drink. Leave it at least a few weeks. Anything after a month and you can start tasting them, better yet 6 weeks or more and you will notice it improve greatly.

If you dont like that watery side of things, perhaps look at brewing something a little richer in flavour...the Coopers IPA is quite a good drop when done with some skill and does benefit from a late/dry hop addition.

 

[Zipster]

Got a mate that doubles or triples the amount of ingredients, his beer is real good. He even won a prize at Lithgow festival..

 

[pimpsqueak]

Got a mate that doubles or triples the amount of ingredients, his beer is real good. He even won a prize at Lithgow festival..

You mean like 9kg of malt into 20L? I'm putting a monsterous stout down on Saturday and I am not even close to 9kg of malt. That's a fearsome load of malt... :icon_drunk:

 

[Yob]

I love the Coops Pale Ale.. IMO they make a good 'base'

It has been however a long time since I did one without a spec grain addition, I usually do an addition of about 250g Light Crystal and 200g carapils addition. (plus a little wheat malt) I found this helps to improve the body no end, and although still a 'bit' watery the difference is large... and appreciated.

Hop additions can also help quite alot and over the last 3-4 months Ive tried many new sorts of hops.

One Ive got in the bottle ATM is essentially as above with a 15g Goldings and 15g Fuggles dry hop addition.. been botteled for about a week and really looking forward to getting at it in another 3 weeks or so.

I would have thought that at 5 days in the bottle there would still be a great deal of the priming sugar uneaten too...

:icon_cheers:

 

[mrkitewhitey]

Mate, Im new to this stuff and have made the pale ale you speak of... I too, tested it after 1, then 2, then 3 then 4 weeks and mate, it DEFINITELY gets better with age... Not sure why scientifically, but the 2nd fermentation that happens in the bottle appears crucial and to me, this is a problem as I'm quite the impatient git! lol

Seriously mate... leave it... then fridge it for 3-4 days minimum, then you'll notice the difference big time.....

BTW can anyone fill me in on what the science IS behind the bottling/ageing?

Unreal...


Love this place

Tony

 

[pimpsqueak]

Mate, Im new to this stuff and have made the pale ale you speak of... I too, tested it after 1, then 2, then 3 then 4 weeks and mate, it DEFINITELY gets better with age... Not sure why scientifically, but the 2nd fermentation that happens in the bottle appears crucial and to me, this is a problem as I'm quite the impatient git! lol

Seriously mate... leave it... then fridge it for 3-4 days minimum, then you'll notice the difference big time.....

BTW can anyone fill me in on what the science IS behind the bottling/ageing?

Unreal...


Love this place

Tony

I can't really say what the actual 'science' is, but basically when you bottle the beer it is 'green beer' and certainly takes some time for the tastes to balance out, not to mention the actual carbonation. For stronger beers it generally takes longer to mature and I'm sure the stout I am about to put down is going to take a few months to balance out, compared to a few wheat beers and k+k's that I have done that were certainly drinkable within a few weeks. (though they continue to improve gradually over time too)

 

[mrkitewhitey]

I can't really say what the actual 'science' is, but basically when you bottle the beer it is 'green beer' and certainly takes some time for the tastes to balance out, not to mention the actual carbonation. For stronger beers it generally takes longer to mature and I'm sure the stout I am about to put down is going to take a few months to balance out, compared to a few wheat beers and k+k's that I have done that were certainly drinkable within a few weeks. (though they continue to improve gradually over time too)

Thanks mate...... Yeah, It is a beautiful thing that's for sure, this homebrewing caper.... Got a feeling it is going to become a very dangerous hobby/obsession..

I can hear my mates coming from far and wide...

 

[Zipster]

I usually do an addition of about 250g Light Crystal and 200g carapils addition.

Hop additions can also help quite alot and over the last 3-4 months Ive tried many new sorts of hops.

One Ive got in the bottle ATM is essentially as above with a 15g Goldings and 15g Fuggles dry hop addition.. been botteled for about a week and really looking forward to getting at it in another 3 weeks or so.

So the grains... do you just shove them in? Or is there a specific procedure?

About the additional hops, I understand that you just mix them with the malt extract, but 15g seems from here a very small quantity...

 

[timryan]

I actually just cracked a Coopers Pale Ale with 26grams of Cascade as we speak to drink... Fantastic My Favourite To Date....

 

[Zipster]

I actually just cracked a Coopers Pale Ale with 26grams of Cascade as we speak to drink... Fantastic My Favourite To Date....

26 grams of cascade? please elaborate

 

[timryan]

26grams of Cascade dry hopped after about 4 or 5 days of fermenting... Just drop them straight into the the tub... So easy and amazing results... i agree with iamozziyob its a great base to elaborate on..

 

[Fodder]

Im not hugely experienced with the grains side of things so i'll let someone else give more details...

BUT...from my very basic understanding: its usually a case of bringing a couple of litres of water to the boil, adding the grains for 30 mins or so (?) then removing the grains and running more hot water through them. (Ideally the grains will be in a mesh bag and pulled out the pot. Then drained and rinsed into the same pot with the second lot of hot water).

This water will now have all the grainy goodness in it and is added to your brew. Actually, check this out...has the whole guide: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=80 :icon_cheers:

As far as the hops are concerned, its really down to personal perference and the type/style of beer your after. The variety, amount of hops and how long you boil them for will determine the amount of bittering/flavour/aroma. Bittering usually boil for an hour, flavour - 20mins (give or take), and aroma usually 5mins or less. Included as aroma would be dry hopping which seems like what iamozziyob + timryan have done with theirs.

If you were after a really hoppy beer and like Creatures Pale Ale and Feral Brewery's Hop Hog then heaps more hops at multiple boil intervals would probably be needed. If your looking at simply giving your standard coopers pale ale a bit of a hop boost, but without overpowering the rest of the brew, then a lighter and/or later hop addition is perfect.

A 25-30gm dry hop like ozzi' + timryan's is about right assuming a 23L batch. Have a look through this for dry hopping: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=11

Theres heaps more stuff around on the use of hops, have a quick search through and you should get some ideas. The recipeDB is also good for seeing what others have used and in what quantities and when to add etc etc...

If you're into hoppy ales then you may want to give this one a try: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=867

I've almost polished mine off (last 2 in the fridge for tonight) and will definately be doing it again. I was even thinking of changing my hops to Chinook and Cascade to get something closer to a LCPA and may even be steeping some grains in there as well. I'll be doing a bit more research on it first though, as there are a few LCPA clone recipes about that i'll draw from... :icon_chickcheers:

 

[Zipster]

Hmmm... there is a lot going on there.. I'm not such a conaisseur in all these different tastes/elements I just like to drink something decent. I will try a few things, I have used local honey instead of the sugar/enhancer on last batch, it seem to have done something flavouwise. I have some grains that a mate gave me so I will try them on the next one. I will keep the same base Coopers aus pale and this way I will be able to tell what does what.

What if I use some white beer yeast with the cooper's malt extract? Is it a good idea? Would I get some kind of white cooper's?

 

[zabond]

Zipster get cracked grains and steep them in 3-4 ltres of water @ 65*c for bout 45min[DONT BOIL or you will get unwanted tannins]then strain off the liquid,rinse the grains with hot water till they run clear then boil the liquid [rolling boil to sterilise]for up to 60min with any hop aditions then add your extracts[goo]ect,pour into ferm top up to desired level add yeast @ desired temp and ferm at 18*c Steeping grains will take you to a whole new level if you go to CRAFTBREWER website look under grains you will see the ones that can be steeped with a summary as what they add to a brew-flavours/characteristics and sugested ratios
coops pale ale 1.7
med crystal 250g
caroma 100g[for colour/aroma]
ldme 350g
coops be1 300g
golden syrup 300g
saf04 yeast 30g cascade dry hopped

 

[Braumoasta]

Just a question on the topic of steeping grains. I did this for the first time the other day, and noticed that when I was steeping the grains there were a few bits of grain which escaped through the small holes in the steeping bag into the liquid. So once I was boiling the liquid there were still a few small bits of grain in there. Would this have extracted tannins, or is the amount to little to worry about?

 

[pimpsqueak]

I don't think that small amount will make a noticeable impact. Next time, just decant your steepings and leave any particles like that behind, or better yet, get some voile and line a strainer/colander with it, then strain the steepings through there.

 

[Yob]

Hmmm... there is a lot going on there.. I'm not such a conaisseur in all these different tastes/elements I just like to drink something decent. I will try a few things, I have used local honey instead of the sugar/enhancer on last batch, it seem to have done something flavouwise. I have some grains that a mate gave me so I will try them on the next one. I will keep the same base Coopers aus pale and this way I will be able to tell what does what.

What if I use some white beer yeast with the cooper's malt extract? Is it a good idea? Would I get some kind of white cooper's?

Not hard processes really... really.. the effort adds so much to the end result it is totally worth the effort.

If you have all the basics down then having a good 'base' is the perfect playground for messing around with hop varietys to find out if they are suitable for your tastes.. (either as a Dry Hop or some in the boil... or both)

It was only when I started doing this that the ACTUAL CPA rapidly became rather bland in my book and although there is always some floating about at my house, I automaticlly reach for some Home Brewed beer first as it's just more flavoursome... and well... Mine!!

Just make sure the grains you have are Spec grains (meaning the starches have already been converted to sugas) which only require steeping as apposed to grains which require Mashing (converting the starches to sugas)...

edit: if you are feeling really adventurous you can harvest CPA yeast, (from CPA or CSA bottles) step it up and use this for your CPA's, as I understand it, it is with this yeast you will get closer to a real CPA (and pertty much the only way).. Ive tried it once but I suspect I underpitched and the resulting brew was... well lets just forget about that one... there was a link here somewhere for the how to do.. will try and find it later for you.

Good Luck.

[re-edit] found it, check out the attached PDF in this article Coopers Yeast

 

[shaunbrew]

leave in bottles for 4 weeks at minumum preferibly 6 u can tell the diference

shaun

 

[RobboMC]

When you start with grain start off small. Get a one kg bag from the HBS and just rest it in hot water for a while before adding to the brew. Just like making a cup of tea, think grain instead of tea leaves; and hot water not boiling, and you have it. When you see how easy it is you will be off and running with partial brews with say 2-3 kg of grain. Invest in a grain bag, don't go straining your brew an hot oxidation is a big no-no.

What you soon discover is that things become a problem only of handling the larger volumes, not of skill. At around 3 kg of grain suddenly the usual kitchen appliances aren't big enough any more, and investment in equipment is needed to expand.

With your pale ale you don't say what you added to the kit. Assuming you added one kg of some sort of brew enhancer then the easiest way to get better beer is NOT TO USE SUGAR or brew enhancer, but use 100% malt, either liquid or dry. This will firstly make your beer too sweet, which then leads to boiling in more hops. Most start with a 5 litre boil and around 25g of hops, added at 10-15 minute intervals.

When you make beer with a kit, malt, steepd grain and hops, commonly known as 'kits n bits' then you can make great beer with a minium of effort with the pots and pans found in most household kitchens.

Somewhere on this site is BConnery's how to brew kit n bits instructions. I used these and 2nd time through got such good beer that I entetred a brew comp and got a HC award, so the instructions are definately good stuff.

And try and brew up enough stock that you can drink brews after 5-6 months. They definately improve with age up to about a year and the first 3-4 months is very noticeable. I recently tasted a 10 year-old Coopers Stout and it was beautiful, and a testament to the brewers bottling skills as it still had a head and carbonation.