Duda plate chiller

[labels]

Question on Plate Chillers
(I use a plate chiller)

These are used in a counter flow configuration normally. Technically, when the wort reaches the end of the chiller it should be the same temperature as the starting water temperature and when the water reaches the end of the chiller it should be the same as the starting temperature as the wort. This is mad theory of course because my chiller does not come close to this. However, my question is, if you have 100C wort going in one end and 20C water going in the other at what point would the temperature of the water and the wort be the same and what would that temperature be?

 

[JaseH]

How does the Aussie chillout mk111 30 plate chiller (just looked at craft brew site) rate to the US chillers ?
cross sectionional area & price wise ?

I think they are fine, but the only local ones I could find came with barbed fittings, I wanted threaded bosses to fit quick disconnect camlock and garden hose fittings.

Why would you choose to chill (via a plate chiller) rather than do the No Chill thing??

I know lots of people do both quite happily, i was just wondering what the main benefits there were that caused you (or others reading this) to choose the chiller method?

Thanks!

I like to brew and get it into the the fermenter, fermenting asap. To me, being able to cool it quickly and consistantly makes sense to get a predictable hop character and minimise any chance of infection. I've never tried no-chill but there seams to be a lot of discussion on how to handle late hop additions for hoppy beer recipes.

 

[technobabble66]

I like to brew and get it into the the fermenter, fermenting asap. To me, being able to cool it quickly and consistantly makes sense to get a predictable hop character and minimise any chance of infection. I've never tried no-chill but there seams to be a lot of discussion on how to handle late hop additions for hoppy beer recipes.

Thanks Frothie,

I've done 1 No-Chill: Nice & easy, & cheap!
On the other hand, i'm v keen to maximise hop flavour. I've been considering chilling after flameout hops additions for this reason, but there seems to be mixed opinion on whether it makes much difference to capturing the flavour element...
So it's good to read your preference based on the consistency of hops flavour

 

[punkin]

Makes a lot of difference in my opinion.

 

[technobabble66]

Thanks punkin
I assume you're largely referring to hops character being much better?

Another question: how easy is it to remove the water inlet/outlet & replace with water hose connectors?
I'm looking at getting that 2nd hand one in woodend on eBay, but it just has the basic connections. Or is there an easier way to flow the water thru it?

 

[punkin]

I'm no chilling now because it suits my process better doing large batches. I'm finding some ways around it, but the hop aroma and especially flavour i could get before when chilling was much more to preferences.

I wish there was a way to chill and cube. Some of the people here with large post counts and extensive theoretical knowledge would be better served putting their energies towards developing a way to do that rather than their current forum habits.

 

[JaseH]

Another question: how easy is it to remove the water inlet/outlet & replace with water hose connectors?
I'm looking at getting that 2nd hand one in woodend on eBay, but it just has the basic connections. Or is there an easier way to flow the water thru it?

I'm pretty sure the hose barb connections are brazed in and cannot be removed. Best option would be to use a short lengths of hose with quick disconnect connectors on the end. Not quite as neat but still allows you to easily remove the chiller from your system.

 

[Malted]

I wish there was a way to chill and cube. Some of the people here with large post counts and extensive theoretical knowledge would be better served putting their energies towards developing a way to do that rather than their current forum habits.

Done. Argon's method for instance. Here is a simplified bastardisation:
Bittering hops in wort only. Slow chill in the fridge. Dump chilled wort into fermenter. Do a mini boil with part of it for 15/20 minutes or shorter. Dump the mini-boil through a strainer into the fermenter. This rapidly chills the mini-boil with all the hop goodness and brings the fermenter of wort up to pitching temp. Late hop additions locked in.

If you did not want to chill the cube of wort you could just keep it at ambient temp (assuming this is suitable for pitching temp) and throw a French press of steeped hops into the fermenter. However you did ask about chilling AND cubing.

 

[Malted]

These are used in a counter flow configuration normally.

Technically, when the wort reaches the end of the chiller it should be the same temperature as the starting water temperature and when the water reaches the end of the chiller it should be the same as the starting temperature as the wort. This is mad theory of course because my chiller does not come close to this.

However, my question is, if you have 100C wort going in one end and 20C water going in the other at what point would the temperature of the water and the wort be the same and what would that temperature be?

Yes.

If you were to hold the wort in the chiller and the cooling water in the chiller, they would reach an equilibrium temperature. Neither are really held in the chiller as both are flowing through it.
Perhaps if it was an exceptionally long chiller then they could reach an equilibrium temperature before they exited, also again this would be dependent upon flow rates. The longer the chiller the more potential for heat transfer to occur, thus you could flow the wort through faster. Likewise a chiller with more plates has a larger contact area for heat exchange, so you can run the wort through faster. Likewise if you prechill the cooling water, you don't need to flow it through the chiller as fast, thereby saving the amount of water you pass through the chiller (and reducing the amount of water used or that has to be stored). If you recirculate to a rain water tank then flow your hardest. However don't flow too hard because the cooling water will need to remain within the chiller long enough to actually absorb some of the heat energy.

To answer your last question: assuming the wort is actually at 100oC and has not dropped any temperature during whirlpooling, or transferred any of its heat to the vessel or pipework on its way to the plate chiller and that the cooling water is entering at 20oC: it would depended on the length of the plate chiller, the number of plates in the plate chiller, the width of the plate chiller (since depth is largely determined by the number of plates), the flow volume (aka speed) of wort flow, the flow volume (aka speed) of the cooling water, the potential flow rate of the plate chiller (which probably relates to the number and dimensions of the internal channels), the type or material of the hosing used in the plumbing (i.e. copper plumbing would lose some heat as radiant energy loss more rapidly than say silicone hosing), is the procedure happening outside in a windy place (what temperature is the wind?) or inside a shed sheltered from wind, the thermal capacity of the wort (perhaps higher viscosity wort such as those made from Rye might have a differing thermal capacity?), the ambient temperature and probably what coloured undies you are wearing.

I hope this simplifies it for you.

 

[Malted]

Why would you choose to chill (via a plate chiller) rather than do the No Chill thing??

Hops and/or sanitary issues.

Malt forward English (or other) beer with just a bittering addition - no chill to your hearts content.
Hop forward beer with late hops, chill the wort. How you chill it or what other methods you use do not need to be a plate chiller but no chilling (solely) is not really suited for this.

Hard core cubers/no chillers/slow chillers can work around it, supposedly.

@Labels: have you no chilled a lager that just has a bittering addition? Why do you use a chiller?

 

[pk.sax]

Re garden hose fittings on the dd chiller. Go for the plastic fittings from bunney's with thread tape. Unless you have exact US thread brass, not worth the hassle. The plastic + thread tape shaped itself, sealed and lasted very very well. It's all on the cold side anyway.

 

[technobabble66]

Thanks punkin & Malted,
That's exactly the kind of point of difference i've been looking for.
Maybe i've missed the other mentions/threads of it, but it sounds like i need to chase the chiller thing to capture the best hops profiles.
No Chill sounds great & easy, but lots of people seem to defend it a bit vigorously claiming its flawless & does almost any style perfectly. I'd read a fair bit on capturing hops flavour, all of which suggest that rapid chilling is required, so i was having a few doubts. The last batch i did had a slightly harsh bitter bite at the end - made me wonder if the No Chill might've contributed (i also cube hopped w a few grams, so could be more me than the process).
Having recently discovered the awesomeness of Old Peculier, i'm sure i'll No Chill lots of malty beers anyway (it *is* a great shortcut), but i think i might grab this plate chiller for the planned hoppy beers.

Thanks Frothie & practicalfool - the hose/tube attachments to connectors sounds like an inelegant but effective solution.