Dubble Trouble Day

[Wrenny]

G'day Guys.

To raise my stock levels and just because I want to, this weekend I am planning on doing a couple of belgians. I was thinking of doing this partigyle (sp?) style. ie. I mash it all in. Make sure I mash out to at least 78 deg, drain the first runnings and boil them up. Chuck that in a no chill cube and then boil the second lot. Second lot I was going to no-chill in the primary fermenter overnight and pitch a twin pack of craftbrewer belgian ale dry yeast.

What I have done in Beersmith is to use the same grain bill and had 20 L at 40% efficiency = 1.077, and 23 L at 30% efficiency = 1.054. Given the whole grain bill with 43 L at 70% I get 1.058. Not 100% sure how the numbers will end up, but I'm pretty sure I'll get a strong one and a normal strength one.

Any thoughts on these calculations?



My big questions are as follows:


Protein Rest? I gather a lot of people don't bother, or even recommend against it. But it was in the original recipe I got from the Beersmith website. Keep it? Shorten it? or Drop it?

Second Runnings - After draining the first runnings, can I (A) just leave the grain dry for the hour and a half while the first boils then sparge? Should I (B) add my sparge water (80 deg) and let that sit for the 1.5 hours. Or should I © sparge the second runnings into another container immediately?



Any other comments would be appreciated.





First Recipe:



BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 12 - maabarot trappist tripple
Brewer: Michael
Asst Brewer:
Style: Belgian Dark Strong Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (0.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 20.00 L
Boil Size: 22.89 L
Estimated OG: 1.077 SG
Estimated Color: 18.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 40.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 40.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.50 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 68.5 %
2.00 kg Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 18.3 %
0.50 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.6 %
0.20 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 1.8 %
45.00 gm Fuggles [4.40%] (60 min) Hops 19.4 IBU
45.00 gm Fuggles [4.40%] (15 min) Hops 9.6 IBU
45.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.20%] (30 min) Hops 7.5 IBU
45.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.20%] (10 min) Hops 3.5 IBU
0.28 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.75 kg Brown Sugar, Dark (50.0 SRM) Sugar 6.8 %
1 Pkgs Trappist Ale (White Labs #WLP500) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 10.20 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
protein rest Add 25.50 L of water at 60.0 C 55.0 C 30 min
Beta Decoct 7.86 L of mash and boil it 66.0 C 40 min
Alpha Decoct 3.78 L of mash and boil it 70.0 C 20 min
Mash Out Decoct 8.57 L of mash and boil it 78.0 C 40 min


Notes:
------
Triple Double Day. Add 750g dark sugar to first runnings boil - No Chill 20 L first runnings as Triple.
Add second runnings straight to hops / break in boiler. Add 750g Dark Sugar. Add 30g Mt Hood 60 mins, 30g Mt Hood 15 mins, 30g Mt Hood 5 mins. No chill in primary.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Second Recipe:


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 12 - maabarot trappist tripple
Brewer: Michael
Asst Brewer:
Style: Belgian Dark Strong Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (0.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 20.00 L
Boil Size: 22.89 L
Estimated OG: 1.077 SG
Estimated Color: 18.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 40.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 40.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.50 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 68.5 %
2.00 kg Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 18.3 %
0.50 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.6 %
0.20 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 1.8 %
45.00 gm Fuggles [4.40%] (60 min) Hops 19.4 IBU
45.00 gm Fuggles [4.40%] (15 min) Hops 9.6 IBU
45.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.20%] (30 min) Hops 7.5 IBU
45.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.20%] (10 min) Hops 3.5 IBU
0.28 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.75 kg Brown Sugar, Dark (50.0 SRM) Sugar 6.8 %
1 Pkgs Trappist Ale (White Labs #WLP500) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 10.20 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
protein rest Add 25.50 L of water at 60.0 C 55.0 C 30 min
Beta Decoct 7.86 L of mash and boil it 66.0 C 40 min
Alpha Decoct 3.78 L of mash and boil it 70.0 C 20 min
Mash Out Decoct 8.57 L of mash and boil it 78.0 C 40 min


Notes:
------
Triple Double Day. Add 750g dark sugar to first runnings boil - No Chill 20 L first runnings as Triple.
Add second runnings straight to hops / break in boiler. Add 750g Dark Sugar. Add 30g Mt Hood 60 mins, 30g Mt Hood 15 mins, 30g Mt Hood 5 mins. No chill in primary.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Cheers,
Wrenny

 

[Ross]

My big questions are as follows:
Protein Rest? I gather a lot of people don't bother, or even recommend against it. But it was in the original recipe I got from the Beersmith website. Keep it? Shorten it? or Drop it?

Second Runnings - After draining the first runnings, can I (A) just leave the grain dry for the hour and a half while the first boils then sparge? Should I (B) add my sparge water (80 deg) and let that sit for the 1.5 hours. Or should I sparge the second runnings into another container immediately?
Any other comments would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Wrenny

Protien rest, I personally wouldn't bother in these beers, but this one's your call
A,B or C, Again personally, I see very little difference in all 3 options, so would simply go with what works for you best - I'd probably go "B" if I were doing it.

Cheers ross

 

[Stuster]

All looks good. I'd just drain the sparge into another container, mainly to save time later, but if you don't have one handy then either of the other options will work fine.

To calculate the gravity I just input the whole mash bill in one recipe for the full amount of volume you aim to end up with. Then make two copies of this recipe in Beersmith. You're going to get something like 60% of the sugars in the first runnings, 40% in the second if you do equal volumes of each. So scale the first runnings recipe to 60% of the volume using the scale function to get the correct amount of grain, then resize it to the volume you want. The same with the second runnings, just 40%.

To make that clearer. If you have a 50L batch with 10kg of grain. The first runnings you can scale to 30L, then resize it to 25L. Second runnings scale to 20L and then resize to 25L. Not sure if that's clear, but works for me.

Oh, and I'd clean the kettle between boils if I were you.

No opinion on protein rests as I've never done one.

 

[crozdog]

When I've done partigyles I work on a 2/3 : 1/3 split of your given efficiency ie if your efficiency is usually 70%, 2/3rds will roughly be 45% and 1/3 is 25%.

Checkout this article by Randy Mosher for help with formulation

If you have a look in the recipe DB you will find the partigyle recipes for the ISB IPA & golden ale (developed and posted by Stuster.)

Re your sparging technique / timing: leaving the 2nd beer in the mash tun could contribute to tannin extraction, but some people mash overnight w/o any tannin extraction - however I think the thing to watch here is the mash pH of the 2nd beer - make sure it is 5.2 - 5.5. If you have a cube you could run into that. So either B or C depending on what kit you have / how you feel re tannins.

I'm with Ross - forget the rest.

make sure you have some sugar on hand to adjust the gravity - you're making Belgians after all

Partigyle brews are great for getting stock levels up & also for brewdays with mates - we in the ISB do a few a year cause everyone goes home happy with a cube

 

[Wrenny]

Holy smokes. 1.110 for the first and 1.040 for the second.

It was an interesting day. I discovered for the first time that I cannot run my boiler and aircon at the same time without tripping out the safety switch. I brew outside, but the missus was inside with the baby, so had the aircon on. I mashed out at 80 deg at about 1 pm and had to wait until 4 pm till it was cool enough to turn the aircon off. So it all stayed in the mash tun at 80-76 deg (dropped 4 deg over 3 hours). This might explain why the first runnings were so thick.

All no chilling now and waiting for the yeast.